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Author Topic: Analog Lab Playing Works fine, But Recording has Massive Latency  (Read 180 times)

AutomaticFox

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Hi, I'm a total noob to all of this stuff, and I'm at my wit's end at this point.

Here's my problem: I can connect my keylab 88 to my computer through USB. I open Analog Lab. I can play whatever I want and there's basically no latency.

As soon as I try to record using Sibelius or Ableton, I get MASSIVE latency whenever I try to record.

I've spent weeks trying to find a solution to this. Some places on the internet suggested the problem might have to do with MS GS wavetable synth. Currently, it's the only listed midi option I have for recording in Sibelius and Ableton. But what I don't get is how come I can play completely normally using Analog Lab 4 if all I have is MS GS wavetable synth? It makes no sense to me.

Is there something special I have to do to get recording software to recognize Analog Lab? Is that the problem? Or do I have to, (for some reason), go out and buy a replacement for MS GS wavetable synth? I don't even know what I'm looking for.

At this point, any and all help will be appreciated. I'm lost in the tall grass.

LBH

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Re: Analog Lab Playing Works fine, But Recording has Massive Latency
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2020, 03:57:22 pm »
Hi and welcome to Arturia forums.

Software like Arturias come with plugins, that can be used in DAWs like Ableton Live an others.
Be sure the pluhgins is installed.

A DAW need to be set to read the path, where the plugins is installed. Be sure it does that.
When the above is correct, then the plugins will be availble to use in your DAW. Then you can use it, the way your DAW use them.

Beside that, then be sure to set up a audio interface for your DAW. The samplerate and buffer settings is important for the latency you get. How low your latency can get depend a lot on your CPU, but also on other things.
A samplerate setting at 44100 or 48000 Hz and a buffer at max 256 samples should work. If you can get a buffer at 128 samples, then that's good. Some use a buffer at 512 samples, but i think that's to much when playing. In mixing situations you can set much higher buffer to reduce the load on the CPU.

You need patience, time and practise to learn.

Ableton Live have help videos like this: https://www.ableton.com/en/live/learn-live/
The setup videos should help you on your first steps.

Other DAWs have similar. Please search the vendors websites for learning articles, manuals, and tutorials.

The MS GS wavetable synth you mention, is just microsoft Windows build in synth. You don't need it, and does'nt need to engage it in your DAW. Plugins like your Analog Lab will function like sound modules.

When you use Analog Lab in standalone mode (not using a DAW/ host), then the latency depend on your audio settings in Analog Lab. But as said, then the plugins use the settings in the DAW.

There are courses in this stuff out there, if you need it. It also took time for me to understand things like this. That's normal.

Hope this helps.

BTW: How do you record, if your plugins is'nt found in your DAW?
It could sound like you somehow do something complicated that might introduce a lot of latency.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2020, 04:14:20 pm by LBH »

AutomaticFox

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Re: Analog Lab Playing Works fine, But Recording has Massive Latency
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2020, 09:40:48 pm »
Hi! Thank you for the response.

Ableton is pointed to the correct vst folder, located in c:/program files (x86)/VSTPlugins. However, if I want to actually use one of those VSTs, I can't select a specific one. Instead, I have to click on a Analog Lab 4 option, and it actually launches the Analog Lab 4 application as a window on top of Ableton. I can then play my keyboard and get sound to come out, but it has a crazy long delay.

This is why I'm so confused and frustrated. I don't have any other options.

I went into Analog Lab 4 itself and adjusted the samplerate setting and buffer setting to your recommendations, but they had no effect.

Why can I play straight into Analog Lab 4 with almost zero latency, but the second I try to play in any other program do I get insane almost 1 second long lag?


LBH

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Re: Analog Lab Playing Works fine, But Recording has Massive Latency
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2020, 10:01:25 pm »
Hi,

Ableton is pointed to the correct vst folder, located in c:/program files (x86)/VSTPlugins. However,
This path is for 32 bit plugins. Analog Lab is 64 bit only.
And i can see, that you actually does'nt have VST2 plugins in your DAW. The plugin you have loaded in Live is a VST3 plugin.
I assume your DAW is 64 bit too. It should be,
Have alook here about VST plugins in Ableton Live: https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/209071729-Using-VST-plug-ins-on-Windows

Can you please post a screenshot of your Audio settings in Ableton Live?

If you only have latency in Ableton Live, then there is'nt wrong Latency from the controller it self.

It's normal plugins appear in a window in a DAW.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2020, 10:03:07 pm by LBH »

AutomaticFox

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Re: Analog Lab Playing Works fine, But Recording has Massive Latency
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2020, 10:52:54 pm »
Thank you again for helping me even though I'm very new.

OK, so I reinstalled Analog Lab 4 and pointed Ableton to the 64 bit folder. The lag is reduced somewhat, but it's still bad enough to be very hard to record. In addition, now no matter which VST I pick in Analog 4, there are a handful of seemingly random keys that simply produce no sound at all. And some of the keys which don't make notes (NOT PADS, the actual keyboard keys) seem to activate or deactivate the metronome! It's extremely confusing.

I have attached a picture of my audio settings.

LBH

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Re: Analog Lab Playing Works fine, But Recording has Massive Latency
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2020, 11:24:55 pm »
Your buffer sizes is set way to high. It's not the settings i recommended.
However - I can see in your image, that you use a driver (MME - Direct X) that may have much latency, and the internal Windows realtec soundcard.
If you had used a external soundcard, then the driver for that would appear in the dropdown menu.
Ableton Live for some reason does'nt have an option to use the new Windows 10 audio driver. So you should download and install another audio driver.
Please read this: https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/360003149240-ASIO-is-the-recommended-audio-driver-on-Windows


The other things you mention indictae that you have'nt set up your controller correct in Live.
I don't use Live, but try to have a look here: https://www.arturia.com/faq/keylabessential/keylab-essential-tips-tricks - This is to set your controller up as a control surface for your DAW.
Beside that you need to have the keyboard set up too in the midi port section of your Live preferences. I assume you have done that.


BTW: You can use both VST2 and VST3. Just keep in mind, that they might work a little different. This also depend on the DAW. The latency should be about the same.  I just mentioned it, because the path you wrote was wrong.


If you have more questions, then be aware, that i perhaps first will be able to respond Sunday or Monday.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2020, 11:31:24 pm by LBH »

AutomaticFox

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Re: Analog Lab Playing Works fine, But Recording has Massive Latency
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2020, 01:25:38 am »
Ok, this helped so much! I can now actually play and record in Ableton with low enough latency to actually work. You are amazing. Thank you.

However, I still have 2 problems.

The first, which is less important, is that I still can't figure out how to get this damn thing to work with sibelius. If you have any suggestions for this, I'd appreciate it, otherwise I'll try and go on the Sibelius forum and see what they say.

The second problem, which is a big deal and I need advice on is this: Currently, I can record just fine into Ableton, but I can't hear any playback, and indeed, I actually can't hear any other audio at all! I poked around on google and found this thread:

https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=224053&start=15

Which talks about how this issue happens basically when you don't have a sound card. So... I suppose this means I just need to bite the bullet and get a good sound card. But I know absolutely nothing about them. Do you have any suggestions for one? Do I need to get an internal soundcard to solve the issue, or can I use an external one?

Thank you again for your help. You've been a lifesaver. I don't mind waiting at all for you to get back. You've been very generous with your time as it is.

LBH

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Re: Analog Lab Playing Works fine, But Recording has Massive Latency
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2020, 07:46:43 pm »
Good you are on track now.

I don't know anything about Sibelius. I don't think it work quite like a DAW. I can't help with that.

If you mean. that you wan't to run in example Ableton Live and Youtube audio at the same time, then you afaik can't do it with the ASIO4ALL driver. It's not a multiclient driver.
But you can both play back and record tracks in Live at the same time with ASIO4ALL as it's only one program.
If you wan't to hear sound from in example youtube, then you shall close Live or disconnect ASIO4ALL in Live first.

You need to use a multi client driver to be able to run audio for more than one program at the same time (like Ableton Live and a browser with Youtube), no matter it's a driver for the a internal or for a external soundcard.
I have a external soundcard that have native multi client drivers. But it's out of production, and i think it's replacement does'nt have multi client drivers.
I can't tell which soundcards that does have multi client drivers. You have to ask the manufactors, if the information is'nt availble on the product site.

 

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