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Author Topic: Velocity Curve Problem  (Read 3613 times)

bostonsynth

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Velocity Curve Problem
« on: March 12, 2020, 12:22:33 pm »
I am aware that you can adjust the curve for velocity regarding the pads (linear/expo, etc) but I cannot figure out how to adjust the velocity curve for the keybed itself. It's quite a critical setting that I expected to find on a premium product like the MKII but I can't find it in the MIDI manager.

Is there a setting on the keyboard to adjust the velocity curve for the keys? I assume that most users will at some point, play the keys for something and not just the pads after buying this.  :) I can't imagine not having basic velocity control over the keybed outside of a software plugin solution. Thank you!

I'm a pianist and so often times I play what feels naturally soft and gentle and the keys literally don't register a velocity let alone a note. Stumped.

MajorFubar

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Re: Velocity Curve Problem
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2020, 01:27:34 pm »
Didn't you at least already check the manual?  ::) I don't even own the product yet it was still the first place I looked, and got an answer in section 8.10

http://downloads.arturia.com/products/keylab-49-mkII/manual/keylab-mk2_Manual_1_0_0_EN.pdf

No one should feel frightened of asking any question no matter how simple, but honestly it took less time to find the answer in the manual than you will have spent typing the question...
2011 iMac 27" MacOS 10.13 High Sierra 2012 MBP 13" Mojave V Collection 6 Analog Lab 4 + 5 KeyStep

bostonsynth

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Re: Velocity Curve Problem
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2020, 06:32:11 pm »
You misunderstood. I know those settings. I'm asking for more because those 3 options don't provide a usable range for all applications. Those are "presets" for velocity essentially.
They aren't working for my application so I figured I post and ask what others can do to work around this.

Thanks for your comment though. I appreciate you taking the time to leave it.

Didn't you at least already check the manual?  ::) I don't even own the product yet it was still the first place I looked, and got an answer in section 8.10

http://downloads.arturia.com/products/keylab-49-mkII/manual/keylab-mk2_Manual_1_0_0_EN.pdf

No one should feel frightened of asking any question no matter how simple, but honestly it took less time to find the answer in the manual than you will have spent typing the question...

bostonsynth

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Re: Velocity Curve Problem
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2020, 06:37:45 pm »
And for the record too, I too believe that the pads are just not responsive in the right way, regardless of velocity configurations. It's all over the web. Using plugins and third party hacks in your DAW to scale and adjust the velocity response for the pads. That was a disappointment. I wish I had tested them more prior. That's my fault.

I hope a firmware update comes along before another year passes with new features and goodies. This controller is too good to not make perfect.  :)
(I refuse to think Arturia will just ignore this)

Didn't you at least already check the manual?  ::) I don't even own the product yet it was still the first place I looked, and got an answer in section 8.10

http://downloads.arturia.com/products/keylab-49-mkII/manual/keylab-mk2_Manual_1_0_0_EN.pdf

No one should feel frightened of asking any question no matter how simple, but honestly it took less time to find the answer in the manual than you will have spent typing the question...

MajorFubar

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Re: Velocity Curve Problem
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2020, 10:57:35 am »
You misunderstood. I know those settings. I'm asking for more because those 3 options don't provide a usable range for all applications. Those are "presets" for velocity essentially.
I didn't really misunderstand, your post said "Is there a setting on the keyboard to adjust the velocity curve for the keys", so that's what I answered, not "is there a setting other than lin/log/exp", which unfortunately would be no.
And for the record too, I too believe that the pads are just not responsive in the right way, regardless of velocity configurations.
Agreed. On the original keylab there is an option to configure the minimum and maximum value each pad will trigger, so that for example you don't have to whack them with a force of 10,000 suns just to get a velocity of 100+ out of them. The keyboard and pads also each have have 11 assignable velocity and aftertouch curves. It's crazy that the mkII lost so much configurability.
2011 iMac 27" MacOS 10.13 High Sierra 2012 MBP 13" Mojave V Collection 6 Analog Lab 4 + 5 KeyStep

bostonsynth

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Re: Velocity Curve Problem
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2020, 02:08:43 pm »
Agreed. On the original keylab there is an option to configure the minimum and maximum value each pad will trigger, so that for example you don't have to whack them with a force of 10,000 suns just to get a velocity of 100+ out of them. The keyboard and pads also each have have 11 assignable velocity and aftertouch curves. It's crazy that the mkII lost so much configurability.

In theory though it is possible for a fix like that to be pushed via firmware, correct? If they decide do. I believe this is true.

MajorFubar

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Re: Velocity Curve Problem
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2020, 03:11:32 pm »
Technically it's possible. The hardware is capable, they just removed the functionalities from the firmware. I couldn't speculate why.
2011 iMac 27" MacOS 10.13 High Sierra 2012 MBP 13" Mojave V Collection 6 Analog Lab 4 + 5 KeyStep

bostonsynth

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Re: Velocity Curve Problem
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2020, 05:23:21 pm »
Technically it's possible. The hardware is capable, they just removed the functionalities from the firmware. I couldn't speculate why.

Thank you.

bostonsynth

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Re: Velocity Curve Problem
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2020, 12:34:01 pm »
Technically it's possible. The hardware is capable, they just removed the functionalities from the firmware. I couldn't speculate why.

The more virtual instruments I try, the more I realize how badly the velocity is on the MKII. I'm hitting with moderate pressure and simply the keys are registering at barely 1-3 velocity values. It's borderline unusable unless you hack it in a third party application like Cantabile and set minimum velocity triggers with workarounds. This controller is not able to stand on its own for real world use. It needs other software to augment it's shortcomings. I just can't believe this. Very disappointing. Everything else about this controller is amazing. Can't understand this decision. I know for everyone with my opinion all over the web, there will be many others who come running to blame the end user and defend this gear but, it is what it is. Oh well. Been doing this for over 30 years. Never seen a hyper-responsive over reactive yet untweakable controller like this ever before. Terribly inconsistent across pads and keys.

The MIDI monitor in Kontakt even shows that incoming velocity at a normal pressure that ANYone would assume is sufficient, shows up as velocity of 1 (if it triggers at all). Sometimes I may get lucky and get a velocity of 10. MIDI OX shows the same after extensive testing. Unreal. Borderline unplayable for real time MIDI input, real frustrating. Requires extensive MIDI editing after input. Imagine playing with reasonable pressure like you have been doing for 30 years on 100s of keyboards, only to find a velocity of 10, usually lower. The 3 "curves" settings do nothing to change this other than slightly. Maybe 3-5 values difference. I'd be happy to show proof of this, it's not user error. It's a hardware or firmware failure. The data doesn't lie. :)

My goal with this thread now, seeing as how there's nothing we can do about it, is to at least inform other professional working musicians who seek a midi controller for their studio: be careful with this if you want real time input for orchestrating. You WILL have to do extensive MIDI editing in your piano roll, tweak velocities, and worst of all, you will not be always able to hear or get tactile responses to key presses if you play "too realistically" like you can on a piano or higher end controller.

With the Keylab MKII, you have to tailor your entire playing style and preferences to the controller. It does not adapt to you. This is the problem.
If you can live with that, this is a great piece of kit.

I wish Arturia would look at this and update it.
(cue all the happy people who love the MKII)  8) ;D

Have a nice day :)
« Last Edit: March 16, 2020, 12:51:37 pm by bostonsynth »

MajorFubar

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Re: Velocity Curve Problem
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2020, 01:07:39 pm »
Do you think yours just might be faulty? I have the mk1 and most of the time I have the opposite problem, ie it's too easy to trigger maximum velocity, especially on the black keys.
2011 iMac 27" MacOS 10.13 High Sierra 2012 MBP 13" Mojave V Collection 6 Analog Lab 4 + 5 KeyStep

bostonsynth

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Re: Velocity Curve Problem
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2020, 05:17:59 pm »
Do you think yours just might be faulty? I have the mk1 and most of the time I have the opposite problem, ie it's too easy to trigger maximum velocity, especially on the black keys.

It's possible now that I reconsider. There is no way that it's too easy to trigger max velocity, I'd rather have that problem lol. So funny we have opposites. I bought my Keylab online, so Arturia probably won't be able to help me right? I have to go through the online vendor for returns? :( Not looking forward to that. What would you do? My black keys literally NEVER trigger unless I HAMMER them, and I mean, hammer. It sure seems like a QC problem. Thank you for helping.

MajorFubar

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Re: Velocity Curve Problem
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2020, 12:09:48 pm »
Maybe one final thing you could try is a firmware reset:

- Turn off the KeyLab mkII using the power switch on the back of the unit
- Press and hold Oct+ and Oct- buttons, and while holding them depressed...
- Turn the power switch back on, wait a second or two and release the Oct+ and Oct- buttons.
- The LCD screen will display a factory reset message.

If the problems persist after that, I'd definitely agree you have a faulty unit and you should return it. There's no way you should need to beat the keys just to get maximum velocity out of them. It probably varies from country to country, but in my territory (UK), the vendor, whether a physical shop or online store, is responsible for dealing with returns of faulty goods. Check your own distance selling regulations.
2011 iMac 27" MacOS 10.13 High Sierra 2012 MBP 13" Mojave V Collection 6 Analog Lab 4 + 5 KeyStep

PatriotsBiker

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Re: Velocity Curve Problem
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2020, 07:45:55 pm »
I just love making my first post on a forum a reply to a somewhat outdated thread, but this could easily have been me. I was hoping the OP, bostonsynth, had found a solution. I can hit them without too much out of the ordinary force and get the velocity into the 40's, but hitting 80-100 takes a good bit of force. I swear I do not remember having this issue over a year ago when it was new.

bruno1

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Re: Velocity Curve Problem
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2020, 07:44:30 pm »
Dear all,
I also find that the 3 velocity settings are ridiculous. As a piano player, I cannot play with this thing, everything sounds jumpy and crappy.
We've sent men to the moon, but we cannot make a velocity curve?
Did anyone find any solution or a plug-in to ammend this?
I also had an m-audio oxygen and the "Default" curve is just perfect.
Best
Bruno

MajorFubar

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Re: Velocity Curve Problem
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2020, 01:12:38 pm »
We've sent men to the moon, but we cannot make a velocity curve?
To be fair the mk1 had adjustable velocity curve, it's just the mk2 where certain customizing functionalities have been removed. No idea why!
2011 iMac 27" MacOS 10.13 High Sierra 2012 MBP 13" Mojave V Collection 6 Analog Lab 4 + 5 KeyStep

 

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