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Author Topic: Change presets in other vsts  (Read 941 times)

melodyking

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Change presets in other vsts
« on: January 28, 2020, 10:20:58 pm »
Hi

Just got the Keylab Essential 49 and it works great with Arturias Analog lab and V-collection.
Unfortunately the wheel and preset buttons are not assignable in the midi control center. So I tried to assign the Part 1/Next and Part 2/Prev buttons instead for changing presets when working with other Vsts in Reaper. I Only managed to make the buttons change to a specific preset using the "Program number" in the patch change mode. Is it possible to setup the buttons to go from the next (down) or prev/back (up) to browse presets?

Thanks in advance
« Last Edit: January 28, 2020, 10:24:12 pm by melodyking »

LBH

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Re: Change presets in other vsts
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2020, 10:56:01 pm »
Hi and welcome to Arturia forums.

That depends on the VSTs functionality, no matter which controller that use midi CC you have.
(Only if Reaper/ a DAW has a function where you can map controls this can have to do with the DAW. It's a communication between the controller and the VST.)

Arturias VSTs have the required functionality for this, so any controller can assign buttons to the next and previous preset buttons.
If the VST in some way or another has next and previous preset buttons, that you can assign buttons to by using midi learn, then you can assign Keylabs assignable buttons.

Beside that you have the ProgramChange functionality you mention, that also work with VSTs that can use ProgramChange in one way or another. It's actually a very good thing in a performance, that you can select a certain preset, and not just step throug presets. A direct selection is much more useful in a performance situation.

Even if Keylab did have step bank and programchange, what it unfortunately don't have, then it would still depend on the individual VST if it in some way or another can work with such messages.

In some VSTs - including Arturias - you can use the computers arrow keys to step throug presets.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2020, 11:17:59 pm by LBH »

melodyking

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Re: Change presets in other vsts
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2020, 01:36:51 am »
Hi and welcome to Arturia forums.

That depends on the VSTs functionality, no matter which controller that use midi CC you have.
(Only if Reaper/ a DAW has a function where you can map controls this can have to do with the DAW. It's a communication between the controller and the VST.)

Arturias VSTs have the required functionality for this, so any controller can assign buttons to the next and previous preset buttons.
If the VST in some way or another has next and previous preset buttons, that you can assign buttons to by using midi learn, then you can assign Keylabs assignable buttons.

Beside that you have the ProgramChange functionality you mention, that also work with VSTs that can use ProgramChange in one way or another. It's actually a very good thing in a performance, that you can select a certain preset, and not just step throug presets. A direct selection is much more useful in a performance situation.

Even if Keylab did have step bank and programchange, what it unfortunately don't have, then it would still depend on the individual VST if it in some way or another can work with such messages.

In some VSTs - including Arturias - you can use the computers arrow keys to step throug presets.

Yeah, obviously it depends on the vst aswell as the daw. I never mangaged to chnage presets with my nektar midi controller in arturias vsts but it worked in some other vsts like the korg legacy collection and dexed within reaper, If you can use arrow keys to change presets in a vst why cant you change this to buttons on the midi controller?
How do you make a non arturia controller change presets in arturias vst? Some special midi CC message?

Noticed that there already was 2 threads asking almost the same thing:

https://forum.arturia.com/index.php?topic=101015.0
https://forum.arturia.com/index.php?topic=96520.0

Is it possible to automap cutoff attack sustain etc on arturias to the to the corresponding parameters on some other vsts or do you have to do this manually?
« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 01:41:42 am by melodyking »

LBH

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Re: Change presets in other vsts
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2020, 02:29:48 am »
Yeah, obviously it depends on the vst
If it obvious, then i don't understand you ask like you do.

If you can use arrow keys to change presets in a vst why cant you change this to buttons on the midi controller?
How do you make a non arturia controller change presets in arturias vst? Some special midi CC message?
You say this is obvious above.
As said:
Arturias VSTs have the required functionality for this, so any controller can assign buttons to the next and previous preset buttons.
If the VST in some way or another has next and previous preset buttons, that you can assign buttons to by using midi learn, then you can assign Keylabs assignable buttons.
As you have a Arturia controller, then i think you can select your controller as controller for browsing presets in Arturias applications. This is explained in the manuals. There is a selector in the Browser section.
In Arturias applications you also in example can use MIDI learn to assign buttons to the next and previous buttons.
Please refer to the applications manuals about MIDI learn.
It's the same for other VSTs, but obviously it can only be done, if the VST allow controls to be assigned for this by using midi learn, or have other ways to solve this. Refer to the relevant applications manual about this.

About the links you post, then one is about using the jog wheel for this. As far as i know, then the jog wheel is'nt avaible for midi learn. Its not the same question.
The other thread is answered and is actually explaining the same thing for other vendors applications as i now have done twice in this thread.
Do you need more directions on how to use midi learn/ midi cc, that you can't find in the manuals? What's not explained?


Is it possible to automap cutoff attack sustain etc on arturias to the to the corresponding parameters on some other vsts or do you have to do this manually?
What do you mean by automap?
If the midi CCs is the same number for  in example cutoff in one VST and in another, then they  automaticly respond to the same control.
In Arturias applications you can even create different MIDI Configs. Please refer to the manuals about that, if you in example need to create maps for more than one controller.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 02:56:23 am by LBH »

melodyking

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Re: Change presets in other vsts
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2020, 12:12:10 pm »
Yeah, obviously it depends on the vst
If it obvious, then i don't understand you ask like you do.

If you can use arrow keys to change presets in a vst why cant you change this to buttons on the midi controller?
How do you make a non arturia controller change presets in arturias vst? Some special midi CC message?
You say this is obvious above.
As said:
Arturias VSTs have the required functionality for this, so any controller can assign buttons to the next and previous preset buttons.
If the VST in some way or another has next and previous preset buttons, that you can assign buttons to by using midi learn, then you can assign Keylabs assignable buttons.
As you have a Arturia controller, then i think you can select your controller as controller for browsing presets in Arturias applications. This is explained in the manuals. There is a selector in the Browser section.
In Arturias applications you also in example can use MIDI learn to assign buttons to the next and previous buttons.
Please refer to the applications manuals about MIDI learn.
It's the same for other VSTs, but obviously it can only be done, if the VST allow controls to be assigned for this by using midi learn, or have other ways to solve this. Refer to the relevant applications manual about this.

About the links you post, then one is about using the jog wheel for this. As far as i know, then the jog wheel is'nt avaible for midi learn. Its not the same question.
The other thread is answered and is actually explaining the same thing for other vendors applications as i now have done twice in this thread.
Do you need more directions on how to use midi learn/ midi cc, that you can't find in the manuals? What's not explained?


Is it possible to automap cutoff attack sustain etc on arturias to the to the corresponding parameters on some other vsts or do you have to do this manually?
What do you mean by automap?
If the midi CCs is the same number for  in example cutoff in one VST and in another, then they  automaticly respond to the same control.
In Arturias applications you can even create different MIDI Configs. Please refer to the manuals about that, if you in example need to create maps for more than one controller.

I mean its obvious that it depends somewhat on the vst and daw. But it seems like you missunderstood me. So sorry if you got offended. Maybe used the wrong word,
Midi learn didnt work I think when I tried it on with my nektar midi controller in arturias vst for changing presets.
Tried CC 0 and CC 32 was not able to change presets in arturias vst. Maybe you need to use some other message?

With automap I mean that it automatically maps to the right parameters on the vsts, or something like automap from novation.
It doesnt seem to map anything automatically with the other vsts other than arturia that i tried.
 
« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 12:37:37 pm by melodyking »

LBH

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Re: Change presets in other vsts
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2020, 04:50:27 pm »
Midi learn didnt work I think when I tried it on with my nektar midi controller in arturias vst for changing presets.
Tried CC 0 and CC 32 was not able to change presets in arturias vst. Maybe you need to use some other message?
CC0 and CC32 is in standard midi used for Bank select.
Keep in mind that a midi CC only work if the messages can be used by an recieving part.
In Arturias synths i would use other midi CCs than CC0 and CC32 fto assign to a previous or next preset button.
Keep in mind, that applications can have reserved midi CC parameters that can't be assigned freely. Arturias does have reserved parameters.

Arturias applications shall be set in Midi Learn mode to assign controls. That you - as with other things - can read about in the manuals.

I don't know if your Nektar controller also need to be set in a certain Midi learn mode for this to work. You have to look in the manual for your controller. Can't you find an instruction video or guide for this?

Normally when a Arturia application is set in Midi learn mode, then you just have to select the parameter you wish to assign a control so a dialog box open, then move the the knob or slider or press the button on your midi controller, that you wish to assign to the applications parameter, until you see the applications parameter respond.
In the mentioned dialog box in Arturias application you also can see which midi cc it allready have assigned, if it has a parameter assigned. Some parameters has allready a midi cc assigned according to generel midi mapping for certain controls.

You can find many midi cc implementation list on the web.  Lists like this: http://www.nortonmusic.com/midi_cc.html
You'll find that many parameters that are mapped and used in applications and hardware still stand on this.
When you assign midi CC to something like a next or previous preset button, then i suggest you use a undefined midi CC number.


With automap I mean that it automatically maps to the right parameters on the vsts, or something like automap from novation.
It doesnt seem to map anything automatically with the other vsts other than arturia that i tried.

Keylab MKII does'nt automap to other manufactors applications.
Keylab has the speciel relationship with Arturias applications, that the Analog Lab integration (that's pre mapped), and the Browse preset settings offer.

Novations last top controller SL MKIII also did'nt have automap like my SL MKII have. Still with that kind of automap it depended on if the manufactors created automaps layouts,as the automapping otherwise is quite random. I have allways needed to create layouts my self to get some order. But i still think that in example the many pages is good - or was, as Novation say it's not needed anymore.

Native instruments have the NKS system, but that also depend on the manufactors or your own layouts. It's not a automap as such.

Perhaps in the future with midi 2.0 this will change.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 05:21:37 pm by LBH »

melodyking

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Re: Change presets in other vsts
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2020, 03:18:02 am »
In Arturias synths i would use other midi CCs than CC0 and CC32 fto assign to a previous or next preset button.
So, which would you use?

Normally when a Arturia application is set in Midi learn mode, then you just have to select the parameter you wish to assign a control so a dialog box open, then move the the knob or slider or press the button on your midi controller, that you wish to assign to the applications parameter, until you see the applications parameter respond.
In the mentioned dialog box in Arturias application you also can see which midi cc it allready have assigned, if it has a parameter assigned. Some parameters has allready a midi cc assigned according to generel midi mapping for certain controls.

Already tried it, not working for preset change but works for other parameters. Made a new user map.

Figured out that arturia uses cc 29 for next preset and cc 28 for previous.

« Last Edit: February 01, 2020, 04:08:23 am by melodyking »

LBH

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Re: Change presets in other vsts
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2020, 05:01:58 pm »
In Arturias synths i would use other midi CCs than CC0 and CC32 fto assign to a previous or next preset button.
So, which would you use?
You can find many midi cc implementation list on the web.  Lists like this: http://www.nortonmusic.com/midi_cc.html
You'll find that many parameters that are mapped and used in applications and hardware still stand on this.
When you assign midi CC to something like a next or previous preset button, then i suggest you use a undefined midi CC number.
I can add that don't use a Midi CC that you allready use for something in a specific application.

Already tried it, not working for preset change but works for other parameters. Made a new user map.
Please describe what excactly have you tried, and how have you excactly tried to do it, and in which excact application?
Screenshots are welcome.

Figured out that arturia uses cc 29 for next preset and cc 28 for previous.
I don't have a Keylab. In my Arturia applications the previous and next buttons is unassigned.
But shall i understand that you can get your Arturia applications to work?
Midi CC 28 and 29 are both undefined Midi controls, so they are fine to use for a function like this.

Keep in mind, that in Arturias applications your Keylab MKII can browse when it's selected as controller for the application, like i have described in the thread.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2020, 05:10:47 pm by LBH »

melodyking

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Re: Change presets in other vsts
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2020, 10:48:31 pm »

hrgraf

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Re: Change presets in other vsts
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2021, 10:11:57 pm »
Hi, I have built a VST2 plug-in as work-around for this issue. It converts the Arturia default CC MIDI commands of the Preset knob to MIDI program changes.
Check it out at https://github.com/hrgraf/pizmidi and let me know if it works for you!


melodyking

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Re: Change presets in other vsts
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2021, 10:10:40 pm »
Hi, I have built a VST2 plug-in as work-around for this issue. It converts the Arturia default CC MIDI commands of the Preset knob to MIDI program changes.
Check it out at https://github.com/hrgraf/pizmidi and let me know if it works for you!



Thats awesome hrgraf!  :)
Gonna try it out!

 

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