Arturia Forums
Hardware Instruments => MatrixBrute => MatrixBrute - General discussions => Topic started by: Carbonite on December 04, 2019, 09:10:16 pm
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Syncing the Matrixbrute with my DAW (Cubase) via Midi Sync is still not possible. It is super unstable and differes +2 -2 BPM. I thought it was fixed with the new firmware. Can anyone confirm that it is still not working or am I the only one. Any workaround?
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Which is the master clock?
Does this happen during a stable set tempo with no variation at the clock source? Curiously, what is the source tempo?
I could test this both ways using MIDI DIN if you give me a ball park tempo...
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Nooooo. I haven't updated yet, but I will on Sunday and I am a Cubase user, too. Damn, I really hope, we find an easy fix. Will tell you Sunday!
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Dear you All,
after the V2 Update my MB syncs fine with Studio One V4.5x / still not fine with Ableton Live V10.1x …
But Ableton Live has massive sync Problems with all my other gear.
Best Regards
Lars
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Make sure that your clock source is stable before you take it out on your poor brute ;)
My clock is, within reason (give or take some samples), stable.
I've mentioned this before but here I go again: computers do not generate a stable midi clock generally speaking. All the other computer processes take priority and skew the clock output.
To properly sync all your gear, you need a guarantee clock source either via a dedicated clock, or some type of clock converter. I personally use Expert sleepers USAMO and it works very well to set my clock through out my studio. The only downside to the USAMO is that it uses up an audio output on your interface, but it is laser accurate.
Please keep in mind: the above mentioned will remedy your jitter, you will still have your system's inherent latency which must be delt with separately.
Hope this helps, good luck.
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Make sure that your clock source is stable before you take it out on your poor brute ;)
My clock is, within reason (give or take some samples), stable.
I haven't put my MxB to the test for sync stability, but after reading all of your observations and concerns about midi sync with the MxB before v2 firmware, if you now say it is (reasonably) stable, then I have to believe v2 has solved the major issues with midi sync.
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May I ask standingwave if I got things right on sync.
I bought my Matrix Brute yesterday dec 5.
In Cubase, I activate sending midi timecode and midi clock to the matrix and press MIDI sync on the Matrix. That's it.
It works perfectly with most presets but with some only play two three or four notes (without looping).
I presume it's the way these presets is programmed. But I want to make sure I got the sync right.
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That's all you should have to do to get the brute to respond to your clock. With that being said though: you may experience MIDI clock jitter from you source (your computer). Depending of how tight you need things and how good/bad your computer's clock is, you may need to look at ways to help stabilize your clock source.
Cheers!
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Ive been recently syncing to pamelas new workout via midi. The brute is stable but insists on reading .1 off; so 102 bpm on pnw will show as 101.9 ... other people see this?
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I have a MatrixBrute shipping to me now, which I felt safe ordering now that the update supposedly fixes a lot of issues.
So when it arrives I will test the clock as best I can. I have a couple of devices, one called a MidiGAL, which will "fix" the clock that another clock source gives it, and also will "test" the clock received from another source. I also have a Roland MXB1 which is a similar device for providing clock and stabilizing a clock.
I will at least know if the clock received by the MB is stable, or rather I will know how far off it is - no midi stream is ever very stable compared to audio clock, I guess.
If the MB can be a clock source, we can test the clock that it creates using the same tool.
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That's awesome! Everyone should get all the testing in ASAP while Arturia are still in hotfix mode and actively fixing any missed bugs. The more eyes and ears on things, the less of a chance something will be missed.
Charts!
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May I ask standingwave if I got things right on sync.
I bought my Matrix Brute yesterday dec 5.
In Cubase, I activate sending midi timecode and midi clock to the matrix and press MIDI sync on the Matrix. That's it.
It works perfectly with most presets but with some only play two three or four notes (without looping).
I presume it's the way these presets is programmed. But I want to make sure I got the sync right.
Are you seeing this with the factory presets? If so which ones and at what tempo? I may do a quick test here given that info (I only have Cubase 6.5 though).
Ive been recently syncing to pamelas new workout via midi. The brute is stable but insists on reading .1 off; so 102 bpm on pnw will show as 101.9 ... other people see this?
That can be a slight rounding error for the BPM display on the MxB, or the source not being exact, or a combination of the two. In any case, it's nothing to worry about.
...
If the MB can be a clock source, we can test the clock that it creates using the same tool.
I've been testing the 2.0 MIDI sync extensively, using low level tools, and found it to be nice and stable both as master and slave.
As standingwave says, if you find anything please share the results so we (the community) can verify and Arturia can look into it if there's anything seems off.
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I wonder if people are using USB for midi here... I had no end of sync problems with all sorts of hardware + Ableton until I ditched USB and bought a MOTU interface. This solved almost all my issues.
(Sloppy) Testing in Ableton gives me different results if I'm using USB for midi, vs the MOTU vs the 2 midi ports on my RME interface. It's super interesting but I haven't dug much deeper yet. I did have a working theory that it had something to do with project/plugin latency.
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I gave up on using USB MIDI altogether due to poor timing issues across the board on a variety of gear.
Have been very happy with the results of routing all MIDI thru a mio10 box via 5-pin DIN. MIDI timing issues is no longer a issue. The included software allows me to custom control how devices communicate with each other, apply filters to strip out unwanted MIDI commands, remapping of ports, channels and controls, etc.
EDITED: As for MIDI Sync drifts, in v1.1.0.73 saw it drift +/- 1.0 bpm. Now with v2 it's a lot more stable, it still drifts but only by +/- 0.1 bpm.
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@francoise: You should not need the Midi Time code, just MIDI clock is enough. This should not lead to problems, but it's worth a try, I guess. Also make sure, that you have no MIDI Loops, which can cause weird behavior, as in the Matrix Brutes MIDI going into Cubase being sent back to the Matrix Brute via USB MIDI.
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Thank you Lunatic Sound, since less is (often) best, I'll untick midi timecode.
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Hello Françoise.
I'm quite curious about the issue you faced.
Can you confirm that uncheck MIDI timecode resolved the issue?
If not, can you please describe further the issue faced?
Thank you !
Edouard
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OK guys, I updated, I found the time to run an extensive check, and I come with good news:
The sync is reasonably tight! For Francois, this means, this is probably an issue on your end, as I am on Cubase as well, albeit Cubase 10. But I have been a Cubase user for ages and sync was always rather good, some even claim, it was better in older versions, due to less processing overhead. If you are still having trouble, I would recommend checking, if all boards are updated, and if yes, give me more details about your setup, I may be able to help.
Big props again to Eduardo for even following up with a question here and for fixing this!
I have tested USB MIDI as well as MIDI through my RME Babyface, which prides itself in extra low MIDI Jitter, and they both stay in the same ballpark of 1-3 ms of jitter, which is good enough for playing a tight swing.
Beautiful!
And by the way, the fact, that the sequencer stays in sync, when switching presets, is mind blowing.
Congratulations.
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I've already "complained" in another thread, but the v2 clocking is a super hot mess in my opinion.
I generally have a synth generating constant midi clock while it is turned on. Most synths spit this out by default, right out of the box - you power it up and you've got a clock stream that is the tempo set by the synth pulsating down the 5 pin DIN output jack. I usually have said synth plugged into the MB using old school 5 pin DIN. By pressing the MIDI Sync button on the MB, the MB syncs up when you turn on the Arp or start the sequencer (assuming you've got a sequence programmed in), and the LFOs run synchronized as well as long as the Seq-Sync is on for the LFO.
This basic functionality is now broken, you have to implement remote MIDI commands to start or stop seq to get the MB to react to incoming midi clock.
PLEASE fix this back the way it was. Everything else about the V2 firmware is awesome, but I'm missing out on it due to downgrading the firmware back so my clocking works. I hope I've explained this coherently, if you know of a trick or technique I'm missing please please advise. I rarely use computers anymore, preferring to just play/jam and it's really fun when you have everything connected via a single midi clock master and every synth/drum machine starts riffing perfectly in time when you reach over to play it's KARMA, midi-synched LFOs, programmed beat or riff, etc.
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Just an observation. No MIDI is accurate. If you want super tight don't use MIDI. Really. Use CV from your DAW over audio into the MxB. Silent Way expert sleepers is one way. Now that IS tight. Makes you want to never use MIDI again. All you need is an old audio interface that works with CV. I use an old MOTU 2408. Sample accurate everything... well damn near.
MIDI is 1980s tech.
Try this https://expert-sleepers.co.uk/silentway.html you will never want to use MIDI again (because it sucks).
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Seriously use CV instead of MIDI anyway. Just been listening to a track I am making that uses CV to trigger the notes. After correcting the round trip latency after tracking it down the timing is exceptional. Honestly try it. MIDI is so soft compared, even when it is technically "right" it is still way more loose than using CV. Without MIDI the timing is true and crisp and just feels great.
RIP MIDI. The future is voltage.
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FYI- MIDI 2.0 was just released into the wild.