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V Collection - Legacy versions => Analog Lab 3 => Analog Lab 3 - Technical issues => Topic started by: g0ldr4k3 on January 29, 2019, 06:44:16 am

Title: [newbie] CLIPPING and CRACKING sound
Post by: g0ldr4k3 on January 29, 2019, 06:44:16 am
hello, finally yesterday I installed AL3 in my mbp pro 15" with an i7 2.2ghz and 8gb with ssd drive.
I was sure that the mac was still great but as soon I started to play (almost every sound) I was so angry to listen cracks and pops ...with a TON of cpu load.....
If I use mainstage it all works perfectly.
what am I doing wrong? is my machine too old ?  ??? ???(do I need an enterprise 1701D computing power? ;D ;D)
thanks for your help!!

p.s. no external audio card for now.
Title: Re: [newbe] CLIPPING and CRACKING sound
Post by: trippyz on January 29, 2019, 03:02:54 pm
Have you tried it with your charger plugged in?
Title: Re: [newbe] CLIPPING and CRACKING sound
Post by: MajorFubar on January 29, 2019, 03:48:26 pm
Analog Lab 3 will run (albeit not incredibly happily) even on my ancient 2010 core 2 duo Mac Mini with its standard 2GB of RAM, so it's definitely not a case that your mac is under specified. Sounds like something else other than AL3 is gobbling your processing power. Have a look at the Activity Monitor when you have AL3 open and see what's gobbling your processor resources.
Title: Re: [newbe] CLIPPING and CRACKING sound
Post by: LBH on January 29, 2019, 04:29:10 pm
I don't know much about MAC. But perhaps it's not good to use the standard soundcard.
However you should be able to do some also even if 2.2.GHz CPU is'nt a lot.

So beside the above - can you tell which buffer and samplerate settings your soundcard has?

And can you tell, if you have issues with any sound or only some sounds, and/ or when you play one or many notes?

Are you running multiple applications at the same time?

Are you sure it's CPU issue and that you are not just overdriving you soundcard or something like that? Have you checked the CPU performance?

have you optimized you computer for audio performance?
Title: Re: [newbe] CLIPPING and CRACKING sound
Post by: g0ldr4k3 on January 29, 2019, 06:31:01 pm
Have you tried it with your charger plugged in?

No i was on battery. Can i connect the keylab88 via USB And power It via power connector?
Title: Re: [newbe] CLIPPING and CRACKING sound
Post by: g0ldr4k3 on January 29, 2019, 06:37:39 pm
Analog Lab 3 will run (albeit not incredibly happily) even on my ancient 2010 core 2 duo Mac Mini with its standard 2GB of RAM, so it's definitely not a case that your mac is under specified. Sounds like something else other than AL3 is gobbling your processing power. Have a look at the Activity Monitor when you have AL3 open and see what's gobbling your processor resources.

Sounds cool...i Am using 10.13 high Sierra and You? I Willis try this night and Keep you posted
Title: Re: [newbe] CLIPPING and CRACKING sound
Post by: MajorFubar on January 29, 2019, 11:33:17 pm
Sounds cool...i Am using 10.13 high Sierra and You?
Same. My old Mac Mini is too old to run Mojave. Least not without a dubious third-party patch.
Title: Re: [newbie] CLIPPING and CRACKING sound
Post by: g0ldr4k3 on January 30, 2019, 07:36:18 am
well...i decided to reinstall highsierra from scratch....but since it is a macbook pro midified with 2 hard drive and no dvd anymore it is rather difficult from apple's restriction or whatever....i tryed to download el capitan but it is impossible...tonight i will try again...
Title: Re: [newbie] CLIPPING and CRACKING sound
Post by: trippyz on January 30, 2019, 02:53:53 pm
Try using AL3 with charger plugged in
Title: Re: [newbie] CLIPPING and CRACKING sound
Post by: g0ldr4k3 on January 30, 2019, 07:12:32 pm
Try using AL3 with charger plugged in

I already tryed but the result was the same....so I'm installing from scratch but.....I have a lot of problems because of the modification....I hope...otherwise it's the logic board that has problems....  :-X :-X
Title: Re: [newbie] CLIPPING and CRACKING sound
Post by: gphantom on January 31, 2019, 02:57:16 am
I used to have problems with an older sound card (I'm stingy when it comes to audio) but, I decided to upgrade to an ASIO card and it makes a big difference.  That is definitely an upgrade to invest in first.  My system is an ASUS mother board that is at least 8 years old but with a quad core CPU and 4 gigs ram.  I also added some SSD drives (one for windows XP - Some software doesn't run in Win7 and above, one drive for Windows 7 and another for Windows 10 which allows me to use whatever OS I need at the time)
So, try a new ASIO sound card (I have an Audigy) and then a SSD drive.  If you have 4 gigs of memory or more, you should be OK.
Title: Re: [newbie] CLIPPING and CRACKING sound
Post by: g0ldr4k3 on January 31, 2019, 05:57:14 am
I used to have problems with an older sound card (I'm stingy when it comes to audio) but, I decided to upgrade to an ASIO card and it makes a big difference.  That is definitely an upgrade to invest in first.  My system is an ASUS mother board that is at least 8 years old but with a quad core CPU and 4 gigs ram.  I also added some SSD drives (one for windows XP - Some software doesn't run in Win7 and above, one drive for Windows 7 and another for Windows 10 which allows me to use whatever OS I need at the time)
So, try a new ASIO sound card (I have an Audigy) and then a SSD drive.  If you have 4 gigs of memory or more, you should be OK.

ok thanks for the effort but you missed few things:
I don't use windows, I have a macbook pro so OSX (I was talking about 10.13 high sierra) and I already have 8gb and an SSD....

how ever yesterday night I finally reinstalled from scratch....but it was really painful ....very very slow ....in the we I will reinstall arturia (now i'm on a job trip) al3 and we will see.... but i'm not too confident....

ps I already made all the modification to speed up high sierra so no animation no transparency no useless notifications....
Title: Re: [newbie] CLIPPING and CRACKING sound
Post by: MajorFubar on January 31, 2019, 12:50:55 pm
yesterday night I finally reinstalled from scratch....but it was really painful ....very very slow ....in the we I will reinstall arturia (now i'm on a job trip) al3 and we will see.... but i'm not too confident....
Sounds to me like your computer has a physical fault. Could be faulty SSD drive, or RAM, etc. No fully functioning Mac of your computer's specifications should run as badly as you say yours is running.

The oldest computer in my possession running Analog Lab 3 is a nine year old Mac Mini with a Core2 Duo processor and 2GB of RAM. It runs Analog Lab 3 perfectly. The specification of your MBP lays my Mac Mini to waste. In fact it's probably better specified that my 2013 i5 MBP I used recently to record a live band in a studio, recording 12 tracks at once into logic Pro, two of them Midi tracks each running an instance of Analog Lab.

If flattening your computer and rebuilding it from scratch doesn't solve your issues, it has to be because of a physical fault.
Title: Re: [newbe] CLIPPING and CRACKING sound
Post by: LBH on January 31, 2019, 01:32:53 pm
I wonder why you have'nt answered this:
I don't know much about MAC. But perhaps it's not good to use the standard soundcard.
However you should be able to do some also even if 2.2.GHz CPU is'nt a lot.

So beside the above - can you tell which buffer and samplerate settings your soundcard has?

And can you tell, if you have issues with any sound or only some sounds, and/ or when you play one or many notes?

Are you running multiple applications at the same time?

Are you sure it's CPU issue and that you are not just overdriving you soundcard or something like that? Have you checked the CPU performance?

have you optimized you computer for audio performance?
Perhaps you have hardware performance issue. But audio optimizing is one thing that might help. Here are 2 guides, there are more out there:
https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-us/articles/206116964-Optimizing-Mac-OS-X-for-DAWs
https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/210296445-Mac-Tuning-Tips-for-Audio-Processing

Also my other questions can be relevant for the performance you exsperience.
Title: Re: [newbe] CLIPPING and CRACKING sound
Post by: MajorFubar on January 31, 2019, 01:51:32 pm
I wonder why you have'nt answered this:
Probably because, with the utmost of respect, it's a bit of a red herring, in the context of the OP's problems. Any fully functioning Mac made in the last ten years will p*ss all over running just one single instance of Analog Lab 3, including Macs running a completely stock build with standard sound cards. It's going to be a different story if any part of the hardware is faulty though, and that's where my suspicious are heading if it turns out his rebuild doesn't fix anything.

Title: Re: [newbie] CLIPPING and CRACKING sound
Post by: LBH on January 31, 2019, 05:12:22 pm
The guides i provided a link for, is also for new MACs and new installs and made by vendors of audio equiptment.
For example even a MAC use some power saving settings (by default i believe) which is good to turn off for better CPU performance in this respect. That's relevant just like having the power connected was.

Even the best computers no matter it's a MAC or not will perform poorly under certain conditions. A MAC can't do magic. It can do as well as other tuned computers using good hardware can.

Even dust and heat can cause performance issues.
There are tools to messure the CPU performance and the heat.

AL3 does not use the same CPU power, no matter how you use it. There is a difference in for example playing one note with a MINI V3 sound or playing multiple notes and using sustain with a Piano V2 sound, or use Buchla Easel or ARP 2600 V3 or Multies sounds - especially when playing many notes and so on. 2.2 GHZ CPU is not much for demanding sounds and usages. It's actually below the 2.5 GHz Arturia has in the minimum specifications for Analog Lab 3.

Audio settings does have an impact on how much CPU power that's needed, and so can the soundcard performance itself.

How much is running on the computer at the same time and how, can also have an impact for poor CPU performance.

Troubleshooting like this can be used to locate the issue. And it does'nt cost anything but time and the possiblity to find a solution and to learn something. And it might save money now and/ or in the long run. It can even be the only possibility to get up running with audio applications for a long time if ever.

I can also ask, if there are issues with other audio applications that AL3 using the same samplerate and buffer settings and so on? That's also a way to troubleshoot.

My questions is relevant, and if there is'nt any hardware issues, then a solution may be found, and if not - then a possible hardware issue may be located.

A new computer can have the same issues. I would not buy yet another blindfolded. Perhaps there is no money to buy for. Knowing more can save money now and in the long run-  and also help to get the best hardware for ones usage if that's relevant now.
I see nothing wrong in knowing more no matter what. Quite the opposite.
Title: Re: [newbie] CLIPPING and CRACKING sound
Post by: g0ldr4k3 on February 02, 2019, 02:18:28 pm
so...I made few tests... I don't use this mac very often...rather never...but it was in working conditions...at least seems to be that way. I used geekbench to test it and....the score expected for that model is over 8000 (multi cpu) but i had only a little more of 2000 ....
I checked the temperature of the cpu and it is around 68 and left and right fan around 2000rpm.
....knowing that faulty battery can slow down macs I modify some kext of the operating  to ignore that and....cpu score now is a little over 3000 better but still.... fans are silent and they never accelerated. already resetted pram and smc of course. the battery has 9 cycles life....so is almost new but it is compatible and the warranty is off  because i have it for more than 15 month. energy saving is disable and all animaton and things that can slow down are off.

I don't have problems with mainstage, but with al3 now i can play almost ok a single layer instrument but if it has 2 layer ....well....it sucks!!!
i used internal sound card at 48khz and 256 sample.(was it sample or???...i don't recall)

also the general speed is increased when i disconnected the second sata connector, the dvd one...i have the original drive there with an adaptor kit.
so now i'm using only the sandisk ssdplus drive....

any other tought?
Title: Re: [newbie] CLIPPING and CRACKING sound
Post by: LBH on February 02, 2019, 07:15:42 pm
It's good if something now is better.

I think your CPU temperature is quite high while your fans is'nt running that fast. I wonder why your fans is'nt running faster at this CPU temperature, especially if you have no power saving on, and run high performance settings.

- Have you checked your Fan control settings?
- Have you tried to run the Apple Diagnostics tool to check the hardware to see if there is an error and to locate the error? I think it also repair some issues. I'm not sure. but perhaps it's a good idea to make a backup of your files before running this.
- Have you checked for dust and such?

You say you don't have issues with mainstage. Do you know how CPU demanding that is? Does it reqire as much CPU as AL3 does when running he MULTI presets you use? (Keep in mind that not all Multis have the same load on the CPU. Perhaps you can run some.)
Also keep in mind, that many audio applications either put full load on one CPU core or more load on one core that on another. In that case, then you perhaps can spread the load using more instances.
You can check the load you have on each CPU core.

You can try to run a soundcard buffer at 512 samples, and if needed perhaps a samplerate at 44100 Hz. Does that make a difference, and can you work with this settings?

About the score you mention, then i have found this: https://browser.geekbench.com/mac-benchmarks
What does your singlecore readings say? Perhaps the score around 3000 is'nt that wrong? Which model, year, CPU?) Are you sure your reading is'nt a singlecore reading? If not, then you might have a hardware issue, and need a technician to tell, if that's worth it. But if it's a singlecore read, then you might have the power to exspect.

If i understand you correct, then you only (or perhaps mostly?) have issues with MULTI presets (2 layer?) now? If so, then that's perhaps what to exspect from your MAC with the settings you have, and then you can only do what's possible to maximaize your MACs performance and to put less load on your CPU. Or you need more CPU power, too do what you wan't to do. The above mentioned tests and checks might help to find out.
Title: Re: [newbie] CLIPPING and CRACKING sound
Post by: MajorFubar on February 02, 2019, 10:26:05 pm

You say you don't have issues with mainstage. Do you know how CPU demanding that is?
Very light. His Geekbench scores would seem to suggest his Mac is down to maybe a 1/4 of its normal performance for some reason. My 9 year old core2 duo Mac Mini has a Geekbench score higher than his MacBook Pro, so something's definitely amiss.
Title: Re: [newbie] CLIPPING and CRACKING sound
Post by: g0ldr4k3 on February 03, 2019, 08:54:34 am

You say you don't have issues with mainstage. Do you know how CPU demanding that is?
Very light. His Geekbench scores would seem to suggest his Mac is down to maybe a 1/4 of its normal performance for some reason. My 9 year old core2 duo Mac Mini has a Geekbench score higher than his MacBook Pro, so something's definitely amiss.

I think it too...it's known that batteries affect the performance if it is faulty....maybe it's a general issue on this logic board...I heard there are few bugs (on sata and others) however I tryed installing el capitan in the standard drive connected in the dvd port. It is only sata2 (3gb) while the ssd is sata3 (6gb) and with el capitan works almost nicely, if I set 44.1 and 1024 buffer... of course in single layer instrument.

my laptop is definitely underpowered...I dunno why...and i doubt that a technician can tell me more that I know already (an apple store tech maybe but since it is modified and has more than 5 years they don't bother because there are no more spare parts)

I checked the fan control and it is ok,  with the hard drive connected the fans are spinning more than 3000 rpm with a 61 cpu (the bottom case is open covered only by a bottom polycarbonate cover) so since the ssd is less hot with an even hotter cpu I think they are ok...I tryed with  the open bottom too.

I could have a faulty cpu? logic? the powersupply takes 9 hours to recharge the battery (2 hours life more or less)....I'm thinking disconnect it and try without battery....does it have sense? dunno but it' free to try so...

Analog lab2 works better and I like it more...tryed with 44.1 and 1024buffer...

Do you think an external sound card could help?

EDIT: tryed geekbench without the battery...same results. if the mac was ok the result was expected slower so.....I'm already running slow.
now....I remember from my past working experience that booting with the D button pressed I can enter in the diagnostic menu of the mac.
so I'm testing it without the battery and see what's happen.. I hope in a faulty memory or something cheap.... worst case scenario is "NO PROBLEM" found.....

EDIT 2: diagnostic found a memory problem so I took off 1 bank and connected the battery. and it found a battery problem.... now i'm testing without battery and just 1 bank...EXTENDED TESTING is going ok for now but....geekbench is around 3000 (multi) so.....still too slow...fan are working good during the testing...so no problem there.....I have to try with a good working battery.... maybe 9 hours to recharge it should lead me to a possible problem when I bought it but the mbp was a backup machine at that time...

Title: Re: [newbie] CLIPPING and CRACKING sound
Post by: MajorFubar on February 03, 2019, 04:13:00 pm
I don't think an external sound card would help. Sounds like your machine has multiple issues linked to failing hardware, all linked and contributing to its poor performance.
The fans running constantly could be that the insides of the computer are dusty and need a clean. Removing the base is quite straightforward if you have the right screwdrivers, check YouTube for tutorial on how to open your particular model.
Maybe you can find a local IT technician or independent repair shop who would take a look at it for you: their jobs start when the official repair channels (warranties and Apple Stores) end, and this kind of stuff is bread and butter work for them.
Title: Re: [newbie] CLIPPING and CRACKING sound
Post by: g0ldr4k3 on February 03, 2019, 07:48:13 pm
I don't think an external sound card would help. Sounds like your machine has multiple issues linked to failing hardware, all linked and contributing to its poor performance.
The fans running constantly could be that the insides of the computer are dusty and need a clean. Removing the base is quite straightforward if you have the right screwdrivers, check YouTube for tutorial on how to open your particular model.
Maybe you can find a local IT technician or independent repair shop who would take a look at it for you: their jobs start when the official repair channels (warranties and Apple Stores) end, and this kind of stuff is bread and butter work for them.

hello, fans are ok...with the ssd drive. it is very silent. the machine is very clean..I already clean it when I changed the dvd to the second disk and changed the battery, I don't need another technician because it was bread and butter to me too for a long time!  ;D it is now obvious that I need another laptop....but....last test is installing windows.

the cpu downclocking because of the battery (maybe because it's not original?) works only in mac osx....at least if windows is working ok I can give the mac to my girl for excel and navigation when she is travelling....
or....I'm waiting for a same model from a colleague that has a broken display....if the price is right maybe from 2 I can have a 1 functioning ok....
Title: Re: [newbie] CLIPPING and CRACKING sound
Post by: LBH on February 03, 2019, 08:23:59 pm
You say your multicore score is a little over 3000. (What's your reading for your CPUs singlecore performance? Which CPU and MAC model.)
I must understand you, that the score should be around 3-4 times higher - at least for a none modified version of your MAC.
Your apple diagnostic apparantly did not report any issues with the power or the CPU. (Does it test the CPU?)
This simply does'nt make any sense, unless a faulty memorystick and perhaps bad working fans have such an impact on performance, and you even say the fans is ok.
Can a bad working battery have such an impact on the performance with the power cord connected? Does the PSU and the connection work correct? Can you test that?

Have you tried using MAC Activity monitor and terminal like this to test your CPU and fans and see your CPU usage?: https://www.idownloadblog.com/2016/02/21/how-to-stress-test-mac-cpu/
This test might not be possible if it's a power issue either.

If you have the possibility to try another battery, and of cause allways have the power cord connected, then that would also be a good test, to see if it's about the battery. Not if it's about the PSU. But again, your diagnostic apparantly did'nt find any power issues. Anyway it's good to doubble check if it's possible.

Do you know what's been modified on your computer?

I would not recommend a new soundcard to fix this either. That can perhaps only improove the performance a little on a working computer, and that might not even be the case - at least for your usage. In any case it will not improove enough to fix a badly working computer. A better soundcard is also about better sound.

I hope you find a solution somehow.
Title: Re: [newbie] CLIPPING and CRACKING sound
Post by: g0ldr4k3 on February 03, 2019, 10:02:47 pm
You say your multicore score is a little over 3000. (What's your reading for your CPUs singlecore performance? Which CPU and MAC model.)
I must understand you, that the score should be around 3-4 times higher - at least for a none modified version of your MAC.
Your apple diagnostic apparantly did not report any issues with the power or the CPU. (Does it test the CPU?)
This simply does'nt make any sense, unless a faulty memorystick and perhaps bad working fans have such an impact on performance, and you even say the fans is ok.
Can a bad working battery have such an impact on the performance with the power cord connected? Does the PSU and the connection work correct? Can you test that?

Have you tried using MAC Activity monitor and terminal like this to test your CPU and fans and see your CPU usage?: https://www.idownloadblog.com/2016/02/21/how-to-stress-test-mac-cpu/
This test might not be possible if it's a power issue either.

If you have the possibility to try another battery, and of cause allways have the power cord connected, then that would also be a good test, to see if it's about the battery. Not if it's about the PSU. But again, your diagnostic apparantly did'nt find any power issues. Anyway it's good to doubble check if it's possible.

Do you know what's been modified on your computer?

I would not recommend a new soundcard to fix this either. That can perhaps only improove the performance a little on a working computer, and that might not even be the case - at least for your usage. In any case it will not improove enough to fix a badly working computer. A better soundcard is also about better sound.

I hope you find a solution somehow.

Unfortunately I don't have another battery nor another charger.... These are the modifications:
1 second hd in the dvd spot
2 ssd
3 new battery (first one was exausted)

however I tested with the battery on and el capitan with a fresh install:
single core 938
multi 3200

it's all ok.... well....I'm almost giving up....next step are:

1 if my colleague sells me his mbp I will swap the displays
2 if not....install highsierra on the 120gb ssd drive and take out the second hdd for a lighter mac....for a remote terminal use.... so not much power needed....
Title: Re: [newbie] CLIPPING and CRACKING sound
Post by: g0ldr4k3 on February 04, 2019, 04:25:31 pm
new discover thanks to the intel power gadget.
I found that the cpu is stuck at 800mhz....so it' ok with the geekbench numbers.
reason could be the battery...or anything else power comsumption related....
even a bad termal sensor.....

:(
Title: Re: [newbie] CLIPPING and CRACKING sound
Post by: LBH on February 04, 2019, 09:02:34 pm
The quite high temperature you messured while the CPU apparantly only run at 800 MHz, and while the fans is'nt running that fast, and your apple diagnostic did'nt find any power issues or CPU issues if it look for that,  - may point at some kind of thermal issue. Perhaps the thermal sensor you mention or perhaps thermal paste.