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Hardware Instruments => Origin => Origin Technical Issues => Topic started by: holografique on September 23, 2018, 07:28:08 pm

Title: LCD Backglight Failure (replacement options)
Post by: holografique on September 23, 2018, 07:28:08 pm
After many years of operational use, my Origin Desktop (originally purchased in 2009) has started to show it's age. The LCD backlight appears to be failing. It flashes for a few seconds when I power it on, but then goes dark.

The unit is still operational, boots properly, and is still displaying the GUI on-screen. Just no backlight. I searched the forums and it looks like the only solution to this is to contact support and ship it to France for repair.

Being proficient in repairing synths (I do my own repair and maintenance on my vintage analog synths), I'd prefer to just find out what the part # is for the backlight and replace it myself. I've also replaced a handful of LCD screens on some of my digital synths, including an SY-77, Waldorf XT, Roland Alpha Junos, and Oberheim Xpander. So I'm very comfortable working in both analog and digital devices.

Phillipe - is this a possibility? I'm aware doing this would void my warranty, but again, I'd rather not have to deal with support and shipping it to France for repair.
Title: Re: LCD Backglight Failure (replacement options)
Post by: holografique on September 23, 2018, 08:00:11 pm
So some interesting developments:

1. It seems my unit is experiencing the issue that others have reported here, where you have to unplug the power supply, plug it back in, and then power on for the display to light up. interesting that it's developed this after all these years. I guess I consider myself lucky with this unit already being 9-years old with no issues till now :)

2. I've noticed that now there seems to be some "fluctuations" in the screen display. Almost as if there is some type of power issue that is causing "noise" in the power supply that is causing the display to fluctuate. Visually it looks like refresh scans on the display oscillating at like 30-50Hz. This to me seems to be possibly more of an issue with the power supply itself or the internal regulator in the Origin itself?

Maybe I just need to replace the power supply?
Title: Re: LCD Backglight Failure (replacement options)
Post by: DrJustice on September 25, 2018, 04:57:16 pm
Could it be the inverter for the CCFL backlight? The published service documentation includes a file "10_TECHNOTE_01 Defective inverter module replacement process.doc.rar" with incomplete PDF notes (corrupted files?) on inverter replacement - perhaps Phillipe could make the complete PDFs available?

The display module has the following annotation in the schematics:
PRIMEVIEW TFT 5.0a
PA050XS1 @ $38/1K
REQUIRES INVERTER LXM1617-05-62

The module seems to be readily available as NOS, and there's even an LED backlight version out there. I might be interested in replacing mine with the latter, but it's not urgent as my display behaves fine. (How about a group buy if we can find & fit an LED backlight replacement?)

Here's some info on the module and its variants:
http://www.panelook.com/PA050XS1_E%20Ink_5.0_LCM_overview_6814.html

Re. the "fluctuations", have you tried adjusting the contrast trimpot, either for restoring contact or for getting it into a working range?
Title: Re: LCD Backglight Failure (replacement options)
Post by: holografique on September 27, 2018, 04:14:07 am
Fantastic info DrJustice. Thanks for replying. I was not aware that the service docs for the Origin were published for public use. I'm definitely interested in looking at a replacement, especially with the one that uses an LED backlight.

I guess the first step though is getting those incomplete PDF documents on the inverter replacement completed.

Phillip - is this something you can help with

Thanks!
Title: Re: LCD Backglight Failure (replacement options)
Post by: DrJustice on September 27, 2018, 05:00:47 am
Links to the docs can be found in Philippe's "Origin technical documents" (https://forum.arturia.com/index.php?topic=83531.0) -thread.
Title: Re: LCD Backglight Failure (replacement options)
Post by: holografique on October 06, 2018, 10:05:22 pm
Thanks Dr. Justice. I really think the problem is with the external power supply. It would only make sense why reseating the external power cable on the PSU before powering on the Origin fixes the bug. That to me sounds like a problem in the external PSU itself. The reason I say this is because sometimes my Origin won't even boot properly until I reseat the power cable on the external PSU. It acts like it doesn't get enough voltage from the PSU and just hangs.

I'm going to pursue getting a new PSU first, and then from there I'd still like to investigate replacing the CFL with an LED backlight as it would be much brighter and longer-lasting.

Stay tuned...
Title: Re: LCD Backglight Failure (replacement options)
Post by: holografique on October 08, 2018, 05:40:58 am
Well, now it won't boot at all. Only a few panel buttons light up and the screen doesn't come on at all (no backlight or graphics displayed.

I definitely think the power supply has gone bad. My guess is it's not supplying enough voltage to the Origin. Sent a ticket to support and just waiting to hear back from them.
Title: Re: LCD Backglight Failure (replacement options)
Post by: holografique on October 18, 2018, 04:49:38 pm
So quick update: tested voltage / A readings on the PSU and it checks out fine. So it definitely looks like it's a problem in the Origin, and looks to be the failing backlight issue. It booted once for me last night, but the backlight still flickering. And mid-way through use, it died and froze up. Now not booting again.

So I'm gonna go the route of trying to replace the CCFL inverter first and go from there.
Title: Re: LCD Backglight Failure (replacement options)
Post by: holografique on October 18, 2018, 05:12:01 pm
Some more info:

Right now it appears to be two parts involved with the entire LCD display:

1. The CCFL / backlight module: http://www.panelook.com/PA050XS1_E%20Ink_5.0_LCM_overview_6814.html

2. Inverter that powers the CCFL / Backlight: https://www.digikey.ca/product-detail/en/microsemi-corporation/LXM1617-05-62/LXM1617-05-62-ND/711261


Title: Re: LCD Backglight Failure (replacement options)
Post by: DrJustice on October 28, 2018, 09:37:06 pm
That sounds about right. Did you try to just remove the inverter in case that's what's keeping the Origin from booting properly? Those LED backlight versions of the LCD module are becoming tempting to make sure that the O will hang around into my retirement...
Title: Re: LCD Backglight Failure (replacement options)
Post by: holografique on November 17, 2018, 04:20:14 pm
Quick update: I purchased a replacement inverter. I tested it and it was not the issue. I ended up ordering a new power supply and that fixed it. Even though I was getting full 6.5v reading from the PSU, it would drop down to 3-4V wheb the Origin tried to draw from it. The replacement PSU was the fix.

The good news is the replacement inverter I found (linked in the post above) is an exact match and works perfectly. I found several vendors on Ebay who had plenty of them in stock. So at least I have that as a spare in case it ever fails.

I may also look at doing that LED replacement at some point. The inside of the Origin is very straight forward, not much too it other than the mainboard itself being a very complex FPGA based board using all SMD based components.
Title: Re: LCD Backglight Failure (replacement options)
Post by: DrJustice on November 19, 2018, 02:56:40 pm
Nice - Happy for you! :)

Of course the PSU should've been measured under load, but hey... Fresh new working inverter too - thanks for trying out and verifying that.
Title: Re: LCD Backglight Failure (replacement options)
Post by: goldenanalog on November 22, 2018, 02:38:18 am
If there is any problem with this post: *please* flag and I'll delete!

I've bought several power supplies from this ebay vendor - they work great! Assuming that at some point Arturia will no longer have the OEM PS's in stock, I think that these PS will be *at least* safe B/U's:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Arturia-origin-synthesizer-power-adapter-6-5v-3-85A/263831518151?hash=item3d6d957bc7:g:q7IAAOSwI~taZmSf:rk:14:pf:0

As seems to be the case: the power draw of the Origin is significant; and can 'fail' a power supply over time. I've actually bought some self-contained NOS PS chips that put out 6.5V at almost (5) amps off of ebay - they hook up to a standard DC supply and then pull the voltage down to 6.5 Volts - it's a very safe assumption that as long as the DC voltage going into the Origin is 6.5V, the Origin will just draw the current that it needs; so even if the PS's current rating is higher then the 3.85 Amps, you'll be fine. In fact: it might actually be better that the max current rating of the power supply used is a fair degree higher then the 3.85 Amps - the power supply will likely run cooler (and last longer) and there's less chance (at least in theory) that the 6.5V won't be 'pulled down' if the load on the power supply is lighter (undervoltage under certain conditions can be dangerous to a circuit)
Title: Re: LCD Backglight Failure (replacement options)
Post by: holografique on December 16, 2018, 07:55:30 pm
Nice find! and with free shipping!! Can't beat that.
Title: Re: LCD Backglight Failure (replacement options)
Post by: Major Kong on February 21, 2019, 11:28:15 pm
I've bought several power supplies from this ebay vendor - they work great! Assuming that at some point Arturia will no longer have the OEM PS's in stock, I think that these PS will be *at least* safe B/U's:

Excellent tip. I am ordering one as a backup unit. Thanks!
Title: Re: LCD Backglight Failure (replacement options)
Post by: fellersmtc on April 24, 2019, 04:38:57 pm
The display that I"m finding on eBay has the model number:  PVI PA050XS1 (LF).  Does the "LF" designation indicate that its not compatible with the Origin?

Thanks
Title: Re: LCD Backglight Failure (replacement options)
Post by: DrJustice on April 25, 2019, 02:16:07 am
The display that I"m finding on eBay has the model number:  PVI PA050XS1 (LF).  Does the "LF" designation indicate that its not compatible with the Origin?

Thanks
Many of the displays in this family has the "(LF)" prefix. I've not been able to find out what its meaning is, but I son't think it's anything to worry about compatibility wise.

There's a nice overview of the variants of this LCD module panelook.com (http://www.panelook.com/PA050XS1_E%20Ink_5.0_LCM_overview_6814.html). You can get versions with LED backlight which should work, but you'd have to arrange the LED power of 11V (not available in the Origin, but could be added using a DC-DC converter).

BTW, you can get these for as little as around $16 here (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/PA050XU4-LF-PA050XS1-LF/32442744549.html?spm=a2g0z.10010108.1000001.12.63ed5c617NBaoy&aff_platform=promotion&cpt=1556151702799&onelink_item_from=32442744549&onelink_thrd=0.0&onelink_page_from=ITEM_DETAIL&onelink_item_to=32442744549&pvid=912eba64-2904-436a-a9e7-1a40bf65a5eb&onelink_duration=0.708838&sk=2Bm2n6i&aff_trace_key=cf89030c0c9a4192ba81404f9166bcb0-1556151702799-03074-2Bm2n6i&onelink_status=noneresult&scm=1007.22893.125764.0&terminal_id=3ee5b4b69958463f9dd0873cba19b9b4&onelink_page_to=ITEM_DETAIL).
Title: Re: LCD Backglight Failure (replacement options)
Post by: fellersmtc on April 29, 2019, 05:52:58 pm
Cool.  I just ordered the PA050XS1 LF.  Considered going with the PA050XSJ, but decided to play it safe instead.  Also ordered a new Microsemi inverter and new pots.  I'll let the forum know how this all turns out.
Title: Re: LCD Backglight Failure (replacement options)
Post by: fellersmtc on May 27, 2019, 12:50:20 am
Ug!  I ripped the ribbon cable on my new display module!  Not sure how that happened.  Treat these ribbon cables like paper!   :-[
Title: Re: LCD Backglight Failure (replacement options)
Post by: DrJustice on May 28, 2019, 03:48:38 pm
Ouch! IME that type of cable is reasonably durable and doesn't rip like that from normal handling (still treat them carefully, of course). It looks like the rip is where it meets the housing - could it have been damaged by a kink or crack in manufacture/packing/transport? Might be worth asking for a replacement.
Title: Re: LCD Backglight Failure (replacement options)
Post by: fellersmtc on July 11, 2019, 07:55:18 pm
Success!  Display replaced.  All rotary encoders replaced with Bournes encoders. 

One trick you can do is to tape the display to the circuit board (I used masking tape) so you can test each replaced encoder before re-assembling.  Of course put a piece of cardboard between the display and the board.

Matt

Title: Re: LCD Backglight Failure (replacement options)
Post by: DrJustice on July 12, 2019, 08:24:58 pm
Success!  Display replaced.  All rotary encoders replaced with Bournes encoders.
...
Very nice - congrats on the future proofing! :)

I find it quite inspiring, especially since I view synths as "lifetime" purchases, and I mean to get around to treat mine to the same maintenance and upgrade as yours.

May I ask how the display story went - did you repair it, or get it replaced, or...?