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Hardware Sequencers => BeatStep Pro => Beatstep Pro - General Discussions => Topic started by: wbonx on January 18, 2018, 02:13:53 pm

Title: NOT-QUANTIZED recording --- Kill the grid
Post by: wbonx on January 18, 2018, 02:13:53 pm
Wondering how to do unquantized recording. Is embarassing that on such a beautiful machine every single sequence gets killed in a grid.
Drum all all squared, nuances are lost, everything sounds so 80s... while all the other sequencers on the market do unquantized recording.
I guess would be as easy as recording a shift parameter for each step (like is done manually with a knob to obtain a shift - quite boring ???).

Are you going to solve this?
Title: Re: NOT-QUANTIZED recording --- Kill the grid
Post by: I grec on January 19, 2018, 08:38:02 am
Hi wbonx,
Probably in a future update.

Regards,
Y.
Title: Re: NOT-QUANTIZED recording --- Kill the grid
Post by: wbonx on February 15, 2018, 05:09:49 am
When is the new update coming!!!!!! i'm gettting crazy with this... and other controllers came out and I don't want to buy and learn something else from scratch.

Make a mini update with only this function!!
Title: Re: NOT-QUANTIZED recording --- Kill the grid
Post by: megamarkd on February 22, 2018, 04:19:35 am
Gotta mention again my complete bafflement over people who buy a step-sequencer and then insist it needs unquantised recording and playback.  The whole point of a step-sequencer is a grid-based recording and playback device.
Title: Re: NOT-QUANTIZED recording --- Kill the grid
Post by: wbonx on February 23, 2018, 02:54:16 pm
Gotta mention again my complete bafflement over people who buy a step-sequencer and then insist it needs unquantised recording and playback.  The whole point of a step-sequencer is a grid-based recording and playback device.

This is bullshit. it is 2018. A sequencer is a way to sequence a series of sounds/trigger.... often while permorming. Nothing to to with whatever was the limit in the 70s/80s.
Title: Re: NOT-QUANTIZED recording --- Kill the grid
Post by: megamarkd on February 26, 2018, 07:48:39 am
Gotta mention again my complete bafflement over people who buy a step-sequencer and then insist it needs unquantised recording and playback.  The whole point of a step-sequencer is a grid-based recording and playback device.

This is bullshit. it is 2018. A sequencer is a way to sequence a series of sounds/trigger.... often while permorming. Nothing to to with whatever was the limit in the 70s/80s.

LOLOLOLOLOL swear a little bit more, it's makes you more correct and is how to win a debate every time.  Thank's for the sequencer definition also, I wasn't aware of what they do.  I now know what the eight sequencers that I own (four of which are step-sequencers) are used for.
"it is 2018" makes no difference to what step-sequencers are generally designed to do and if you want to play that game, why are you using a hardware sequencer if "it is 2018"?  We are beyond hardware sequencing, it's old hat, completely redundant due to laptops and DAWs.  Get Reason and a plug-in stepper with unlimited quantising resolution.
Also, did I mention 70's/80's?  I can if you like, just to make you accurate: Look at getting a Roland MC-500 or a Kawai Q80.  Great linear sequencers with 48ppq resolution and multiple MIDI output ports for upto 32channel playback.  Full song mode on both too.
Title: Re: NOT-QUANTIZED recording --- Kill the grid
Post by: wbonx on March 02, 2018, 04:53:31 pm

Quote
LOLOLOLOLOL swear a little bit more, it's makes you more correct and is how to win a debate every time.
Very intellectual instead your opening here.
Quote
Thank's for the sequencer definition also, I wasn't aware of what they do.  I now know what the eight sequencers that I own (four of which are step-sequencers) are used for.
Very wellcome... I meant it is the estension of an instrument, the limit was the tech of the time. But thanks for informing us about your 8 sequencers.
Quote
"it is 2018" makes no difference to what step-sequencers are generally designed to do and if you want to play that game, why are you using a hardware sequencer if "it is 2018"?  We are beyond hardware sequencing, it's old hat, completely redundant due to laptops and DAWs.  Get Reason and a plug-in stepper with unlimited quantising resolution.
Sure.... same way of making music, daw or hardware seq... then bring a laptop on stage.
Quote
Also, did I mention 70's/80's?  I can if you like, just to make you accurate: Look at getting a Roland MC-500 or a Kawai Q80.  Great linear sequencers with 48ppq resolution and multiple MIDI output ports for upto 32channel playback.  Full song mode on both too.
Wow really? You do an unquantized sequencer today with an arduino and 20bucks... is a joke to sell something wrong programmed in 2018 that doesnt allow unquantized sequencing because of the laziness of the developers.

On every single forum people are complaining  about this missing feature. With it this would be a perfect machine. I don't see why I have to read you talking about buying a sequencer only to do grid sequencing or about what is an MC500 and its ppq.
Title: Re: NOT-QUANTIZED recording --- Kill the grid
Post by: I grec on March 05, 2018, 01:36:57 pm
Hi wbonx,
Quote
You do an unquantized sequencer today with an arduino and 20bucks
A Arduino is way much more powerful than BSP processor.
BSP has 48kio of RAM. You cannot even put a good jpeg picture inside the RAM. Flash memory is 256kio + 2Mio (let's say it is your hdd or ssd if you want to compare with a computer). Maybe a sequencer at a cost of 1000/$ and over is better for you.

Quote
wrong programmed
Ok.

Quote
laziness of the developers
Developer without "s". Strange to see each and every one always think there are a lot developers. Unthinkable, there is only one guy. So one guy is lazy because he has 2 or three projects in parallel and maybe a life to live. Everyone forget Arturia is a very small company compared to competitors.

Now let's say no one is lazy and the machine is powerful enough: how will you set the time shift for a step on Sequencers 1 and 2? I mean: the workflow for a end user.

Regards,
Y.
Title: Re: NOT-QUANTIZED recording --- Kill the grid
Post by: luchod1 on March 08, 2018, 12:50:36 am
Hi Grec!

Is it possible to tell us a bit more about the future update you mention

Is there a brief list of fixes/features this update going to bring?

Will it be out in the next months?

Thanks!
Title: Re: NOT-QUANTIZED recording --- Kill the grid
Post by: I grec on March 08, 2018, 09:44:13 am
There is an update on the way. Should be available this month, I hope.
This is mainly bugs fixes. All known bugs. I do not have the list in mind, sorry.

Regards,
Y.
Title: Re: NOT-QUANTIZED recording --- Kill the grid
Post by: wbonx on March 13, 2018, 06:07:17 pm
Hi wbonx,
Quote
You do an unquantized sequencer today with an arduino and 20bucks
A Arduino is way much more powerful than BSP processor.
BSP has 48kio of RAM. You cannot even put a good jpeg picture inside the RAM. Flash memory is 256kio + 2Mio (let's say it is your hdd or ssd if you want to compare with a computer). Maybe a sequencer at a cost of 1000/$ and over is better for you.

Quote
wrong programmed
Ok.

Quote
laziness of the developers
Developer without "s". Strange to see each and every one always think there are a lot developers. Unthinkable, there is only one guy. So one guy is lazy because he has 2 or three projects in parallel and maybe a life to live. Everyone forget Arturia is a very small company compared to competitors.

Now let's say no one is lazy and the machine is powerful enough: how will you set the time shift for a step on Sequencers 1 and 2? I mean: the workflow for a end user.

Regards,
Y.

Hello,

nice to read you and sorry for the edgy comment, my apology, but I end here always after having the flow killed while trying being creative on the BSP. Often is because I have a specific rhythm in mind and you do it right on the good pads of the BSP, you hear it but the loop after is quantized trying to manually shift notes kills the flow. A bit frustrating.

Going to your point, my guess would be to have the machine recording the exact moment when the pad is pressed. Thus probably scanning through a high resolution grid not just the whole step, but then recording the offset between the scan and the step as a shift from the step (you akready have it as a parameter).
I'm quite sure the machine is already working at a different "resolution" since it has to put in space "shifts" to the step.

From the user point view would be just straight play and get your "shifts" recorded directly -> virtually unquantized (still in a digital world).

A couple more notes on things I noticed, it is impossible to Duplicate/Increase pattern lenght (16 to 32..) by shift + right arrow, when the recording button is pressed, a bit odd maybe is a bug.

Also it is impossible to mute part of the drum while using drum+mute if you are actually working on another sequence (drum section not highlighted). I did this mistake many time since is quite un-obvious. Would be easier if drum+mute would always do the muting of a drum.
Even more important would be to have drum+mute start a muting option that stays on hold, I mean with one hand you can drum+mute, then move the same hand to mute and unmute the single drum instruments. I massively use this in lives. While performing then with both hands on other instruments, would be easier to kill the kick for 2 bars with a single finger and go back on the keys :D

For the rest it is such a great machine, with the unquantized option it would be just the perfect sequencer.

Keep on the great job, if you need help coding since you are a single developer(no s) write me in private. :)
Title: Re: NOT-QUANTIZED recording --- Kill the grid
Post by: wbonx on May 29, 2018, 11:37:31 am
There is an update on the way. Should be available this month, I hope.
This is mainly bugs fixes. All known bugs. I do not have the list in mind, sorry.

Regards,
Y.

Hello Grec,

could you please let us know something?

Thanks.
Title: Re: NOT-QUANTIZED recording --- Kill the grid
Post by: megamarkd on May 30, 2018, 04:23:05 am
There is an update on the way. Should be available this month, I hope.
This is mainly bugs fixes. All known bugs. I do not have the list in mind, sorry.

Regards,
Y.

Hello Grec,

could you please let us know something?

Thanks.

Have you noticed that the beta of the next firmware is out for testing?  Check the stick threads.
Title: Re: NOT-QUANTIZED recording --- Kill the grid
Post by: wbonx on May 30, 2018, 04:24:57 pm
There is an update on the way. Should be available this month, I hope.
This is mainly bugs fixes. All known bugs. I do not have the list in mind, sorry.

Regards,
Y.

Hello Grec,

could you please let us know something?

Thanks.

Have you noticed that the beta of the next firmware is out for testing?  Check the stick threads.

Couldn't find the update on the forum, but thanks you are right there is a bug fix release from March. (edit: i WAS WRONG, THERE IS A MAY 22 UPDATE... POSTED in a sticky note not linked to any child board .... very well done).

I hope this is a joke and that's not the firmware update they were planning. There is no new feature included and it fixes half the bugs the machine has.

Could the developers update us?
Title: Re: NOT-QUANTIZED recording --- Kill the grid
Post by: I grec on June 07, 2018, 09:25:01 am
Hi wbonx,
Quote
There is no new feature included and it fixes half the bugs the machine has.
Which bug is remaining?

Regards,
Y.
Title: Re: NOT-QUANTIZED recording --- Kill the grid
Post by: wbonx on December 06, 2018, 02:05:56 pm
Any update on the unquantized recording feature? Come on guys ;)
Title: Re: NOT-QUANTIZED recording --- Kill the grid
Post by: megamarkd on December 07, 2018, 02:58:29 am
Buy something that isn't a step sequencer maybe?
Title: Re: NOT-QUANTIZED recording --- Kill the grid
Post by: wbonx on December 15, 2018, 05:32:59 pm
Buy something that isn't a step sequencer maybe?

This is not a step sequencer, can already offset the steps thus plays notes unquantized, everybody is just asking to automatized the unquantized recording.
Title: Re: NOT-QUANTIZED recording --- Kill the grid
Post by: megamarkd on December 16, 2018, 01:07:43 am
Who's everybody?  Everybody who owns a BSP is not on these boards, only a very small percentage of owners are here and posting and then only a small number of those are saying they want unquantised recording.  "Everybody" is generally happy with what they bought and probably would like the small amount of bugs left in the machine addressed before new  and never promised as core features added.

Yes it is a step-sequencer, it's in it's name.  You also have a funny idea of what unquantised is if note shift is what makes this instrument unquantised already.  It would be nice to have a more intuitive way to implement note shift on the drum sequencer due to it being cumbersome for live performance, but your insistence on a "feature" from the realms of something like the Pyramid or Engine is tiring.  I'm sure those products are available somewhere close-by to you.  I've noticed a tendency to blame instruments when musicians aren't performing as well as they could be, so why not sell the instrument that it is holding back the performance quality and buy the one that will cater to your skills?  Get rid of the scapegoat and get on with making music.

For years decades step-sequencers were actually really hard to come by with everything on the market being full-blown multi-track sequencers with 480+ divisions to a crotchet (1/4) note.  Not setting the quantisation level to that which matched your playing abilities was actually a very destructive mistake with notes being pulled around into completely the wrong positions necessitating another take as there was no undo function like we have since the advent of the DAW.  Turning it off altogether was something only very practised musicians dared to do without knowing they will have to go into event-edit and manually pull the notes into place.  More expensive sequencers had a step-input function but never a real time looping step-recording feature due to none of them had the original per-note on/off and value settings that came with the pre-MIDI step-sequencers.  Real step-sequencers were being made by boutique companies and cost a small fortune in comparison to MIDI sequencers and tended to only have one channel and be produced in small runs.  Even the groove boxes that came at the beginning of the century had sequencers with at least 24ppqn (the original MIDI sequencer standard) but was the beginning of a move to large companies going back to the steppers of yore and the removal of that robotic-human feel of the MIDI sequencer to the full-robot swing that was missing for all those years.

Which brings us to 2014 with Arturia leading the revival of the stand-alone step-sequencer that has helped invigorate the analogue renascence they also helped make happen.
Title: Re: NOT-QUANTIZED recording --- Kill the grid
Post by: wbonx on December 17, 2018, 09:22:51 pm
Man just stop posting here if you don't like this function. Go online on many forums people are asking for unquantized recording, It would be a game changing function and can be technically done.

Also not here to have a lesson from you on sequencers. Hugs.

Title: Re: NOT-QUANTIZED recording --- Kill the grid
Post by: megamarkd on December 18, 2018, 12:01:18 am
Don't need your hugs, mate.  If you don't want opinions on your idea, maybe you shouldn't post them on the General Discussion.  I put the history lesson in for you to understand where the cry for a STEP-SEQUENCER came from and why Arturia designed and released a BeatStep and the BeatStep Pro, not the FreeSeq and FreeSeq Pro....
I've noticed a tendency to blame instruments when musicians aren't performing as well as they could be, so why not sell the instrument that it is holding back the performance quality and buy the one that will cater to your skills?  Get rid of the scapegoat and get on with making music.
Title: Re: NOT-QUANTIZED recording --- Kill the grid
Post by: Terrym on December 18, 2018, 10:34:03 am
Hi wbonx,
Quote
There is no new feature included and it fixes half the bugs the machine has.
Which bug is remaining?

Regards,
Y.

Hi IGREc 
I have posted in the beta forum a nasty bug in pattern chaining that i hope gets fixed

Terrym
Title: Re: NOT-QUANTIZED recording --- Kill the grid
Post by: wbonx on January 06, 2019, 03:29:03 pm
Hi wbonx,
Probably in a future update.

Regards,
Y.

Hello Igrec,

chance that we will get the firmware  to be able to mod the unquantized recording by ourself?
Seems you must be quite busy with the new products that came out recently.

W.
Title: Re: NOT-QUANTIZED recording --- Kill the grid
Post by: wbonx on January 21, 2019, 11:45:42 am
Don't need your hugs, mate.  If you don't want opinions on your idea, maybe you shouldn't post them on the General Discussion.  I put the history lesson in for you to understand where the cry for a STEP-SEQUENCER came from and why Arturia designed and released a BeatStep and the BeatStep Pro, not the FreeSeq and FreeSeq Pro....
I've noticed a tendency to blame instruments when musicians aren't performing as well as they could be, so why not sell the instrument that it is holding back the performance quality and buy the one that will cater to your skills?  Get rid of the scapegoat and get on with making music.

Man don't give up on me!!!! Tell us more stuff... culture in important, almost as important as making the beatstep pro able to record a shift/offset from the step on a recorded note!

Karma UP!

 :-*
Title: Re: NOT-QUANTIZED recording --- Kill the grid
Post by: megamarkd on January 22, 2019, 04:21:40 am
Man don't give up on me!!!! Tell us more stuff... culture in important, almost as important as making the beatstep pro able to record a shift/offset from the step on a recorded note!

Karma UP!

 :-*

Mate, I'm as clueless as anyone else as to if we will get another update.  I have my wishes for what I'd like to be added (tempo transmitted in stopped state for eg), but until they come, I'll go about using other devices to compensate for it all.  Still, I can't wait to get my cashflow back upto scratch 'coz I want a black BSP!

I own a swag of sequencers, including a Pyramid, which can record unquantised, though I tend to use it set to 24ppqn when I play into it.  I've never been a spot-on keys-player (I'm better with finger drumming) so straight recording my playing doesn't really give a "human" feel to it, more the feel of a student pianist who doesn't practice LOL.
Even with the Pyramid, so much prefer my Arturia sequencers, too easy to just thump a pattern in and loop away.

Novation are including a sequencer on their latest iteration of the SL controller.  Dunno if it does unquantised recording, but if it's anything like their Circuit, it doesn't....
Title: Re: NOT-QUANTIZED recording --- Kill the grid
Post by: redon on March 05, 2019, 03:58:36 am
guys how can you still stand the fact that no nrpn is being sent? really. it is so frustrating. new upgrades have been rolling out, and an ADVERTISED feature is still not even there, after 5 years. this is incredible. it's OT, I know, but... I am a polite person, i'm not gonna write anything more than few caps here and there, but frankly as a customer I feel mocked. I could return this product under its warranty, because if you sell something that doesn't function as expected, EU gives you full support for returns. and instead i've chosen to entrust Arturia with my patience. this is incredible. the small sized company should be a warranty for good customer care, not for throwing out new incomplete stuff greeding for money.
Coming back to the topic, this not-quantized recording, it already exists in the new impact. I frankly don't understand why it cannot be ported. did you max out your 48kb? well... just say it , for crying out loud! (at least we would stop expecting stuff)
Title: Re: NOT-QUANTIZED recording --- Kill the grid
Post by: wbonx on June 28, 2019, 02:05:56 pm
guys how can you still stand the fact that no nrpn is being sent? really. it is so frustrating. new upgrades have been rolling out, and an ADVERTISED feature is still not even there, after 5 years. this is incredible. it's OT, I know, but... I am a polite person, i'm not gonna write anything more than few caps here and there, but frankly as a customer I feel mocked. I could return this product under its warranty, because if you sell something that doesn't function as expected, EU gives you full support for returns. and instead i've chosen to entrust Arturia with my patience. this is incredible. the small sized company should be a warranty for good customer care, not for throwing out new incomplete stuff greeding for money.
Coming back to the topic, this not-quantized recording, it already exists in the new impact. I frankly don't understand why it cannot be ported. did you max out your 48kb? well... just say it , for crying out loud! (at least we would stop expecting stuff)

Yeah that's OT I guess, but their attitude is very annoying.

If a developer is here can you guys just release the code or make it open source to allow modding?!!!!

Or write me in private and I may implement a stupid function to automatically records the shift of the notes.

The situation starts being ridiculous!
Title: Re: NOT-QUANTIZED recording --- Kill the grid
Post by: SwamiRob on August 31, 2020, 11:58:12 am
To avoid having to post another thread on the same thing, is this still planned to be implemented at some point? I've got a drumbrute, but the inability to change velocity on the hardware, and the limited pattern memory makes it a little difficult to work with for what I'm trying to do with it, and I've not come across anything else to program & sequence stuff with non-quantized recording & velocity sensitive pads that would be an alternative. Seems like the BSP would be perfect for a bit more memory and fine tuning velocity, and seems perfect apart from the lack of non-quantized recording.