Arturia Forums

Hardware Instruments => MiniBrute => MiniBrute SE => Topic started by: ottsonic on January 06, 2015, 10:27:20 pm

Title: Swing function not working as expected.
Post by: ottsonic on January 06, 2015, 10:27:20 pm
So I input a sequence of 16th notes and play it back by hitting a key - so far so good.

Then I want it to swing so I try applying the 'swing' knob.

I discover that:

Position 1: = no swing.
Position 2: = no swing.
Position 3: = some swing.
Position 4: = the same amount of swing as at Position 3.

Does anybody else notice this or is it just my one?

I have updated to latest firmware and everything else seems to work as expected.

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Swing function not working as expected.
Post by: Terrym on January 08, 2015, 10:17:04 pm
Hi i just had a look and it does seem that way . in the manual it says it starts with a swing of 50% up to 75% at number 4. ill ask the team at arturia see what they say .

regards

terrym
Title: Re: Swing function not working as expected.
Post by: Chi on January 08, 2015, 10:46:50 pm
Yes! Here too  I don't notice anything being swung from the first two positions whilst the 3rd and 4th positions do seem to be the same amount of swing!?

hmmm, very strange.  I am also on the latest frimware and update.



Title: Re: Swing function not working as expected.
Post by: Terrym on January 09, 2015, 06:58:21 pm
Hi i got an email and tried what they said by putting metronome on 100bpm  and synced the mini brute to my daw . made a one note sequence and played it against the click 1. seems to be in sync 2. is a little out which i was told is 25% swing next its 50% and forth is 75%.
so i think it ok but you cannot hear the first and fourth that well as they swing really near the beat.


regards

terrym
Title: Re: Swing function not working as expected.
Post by: Chi on January 10, 2015, 03:39:01 pm
Thanks Terrym,

I can confirm that this is indeed the case. Very subtle change.

Shame the swing is not continously variable, oh well, still a fantastic synth ;D
Title: Re: Swing function not working as expected.
Post by: ottsonic on January 13, 2015, 09:23:13 am
Hi i got an email and tried what they said by putting metronome on 100bpm  and synced the mini brute to my daw . made a one note sequence and played it against the click 1. seems to be in sync 2. is a little out which i was told is 25% swing next its 50% and forth is 75%.
so i think it ok but you cannot hear the first and fourth that well as they swing really near the beat.


I can confirm that is definitely not the case with my machine.

I did as you described and recorded the MiniBrute sequencer playing a short pulse of noise which I recorded into my DAW and sliced according to transient detection.

The results were exactly as I described:

Position 1 - hard 16ths.
Position 2 - hard 16ths.
Position 3 - 22 tick swing on 2nd 16th note.
Position 4 - 21 tick swing on 2nd 16th note.

Position 1 and 2 are zero swing - position 3 and 4 are approximately 21 - 22 ticks swing. The one tick discrepancy is negligible.

I would be interested to know if it is just my machine which is faulty or whether it is a design fault. If anyone feels like repeating my measurements I'd be obliged.

I submitted a support ticket on 06/01/2015 but have had no response.

Screengrabs attached.

Title: Re: Swing function not working as expected.
Post by: Terrym on January 14, 2015, 02:07:06 pm
Ok its seems you can see the swing if you set the sequencer to 1/4 note in the brute connection software i then set it to be synced in cubase  .i could see differences in all four swing setting in 1/4 note  at 100bpm . i have asked the arturia team to see if 1/16 note swing could be improved .

regards

terrym

Update: have an email from the team andTheres no plans to improve swing in the near future.
Title: Re: Swing function not working as expected.
Post by: Chi on January 14, 2015, 02:49:55 pm
Hi terrym,

I cannot find any way to start a new post so I am forced to tag on the end of this one!

Is it normal for the LFO AMP knob to give a scratchy/static sound when adjusting it?

It is most noticable close to the "+" and "-" ends and sounds like an old or dirty pot sound rather than a pop or click from an envelope!

Any advice much appreciated ;D

Regards Chi
Title: Re: Swing function not working as expected.
Post by: ottsonic on January 14, 2015, 04:36:03 pm
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KiopZHmBkDE/U-tFmVuWOpI/AAAAAAAAKi8/zMXvxZhZWtw/s1600/thread_hijack_in_progress_sign.png)
Title: Re: Swing function not working as expected.
Post by: ottsonic on January 14, 2015, 05:01:01 pm
Ok its seems you can see the swing if you set the sequencer to 1/4 note in the brute connection software i then set it to be synced in cubase  .i could see differences in all four swing setting in 1/4 note  at 100bpm . i have asked the arturia team to see if 1/16 note swing could be improved .

I just tested that out and it appears you're right.

The swing function, when the sequencer is set to 16ths, is broken.
Title: Re: Swing function not working as expected.
Post by: ottsonic on January 14, 2015, 05:04:56 pm
Update: have an email from the team andTheres no plans to improve swing in the near future.

I'll just have to live with it then.
Title: Re: Swing function not working as expected.
Post by: Terrym on January 14, 2015, 05:10:15 pm
Hi , its not broken but is very subtle when used in 1/16 . in 1/4 you can see it more .maybe try 1/16 in 70bpm to see the difference.




terrym

Title: Re: Swing function not working as expected.
Post by: ottsonic on January 14, 2015, 05:21:04 pm
Hi , its not broken but is very subtle when used in 1/16 . in 1/4 you can see it more .maybe try 1/16 in 70bpm to see the difference.



It is most definitely broken. In 16th note sequencer mode, the swing function effectively has two settings - on or off. The tempo is irrelevant.

I rather hoped it was something that could be fixed as a firmware update but I'm guessing from your previous response that a simple fix is not possible.



Title: Re: Swing function not working as expected.
Post by: Chi on January 14, 2015, 06:03:14 pm
Perhaps it is just your MB ottsonic,

The swing at 16ths is subtle but it does change at each value on mine!

Title: Re: Swing function not working as expected.
Post by: ottsonic on January 14, 2015, 06:05:44 pm
Perhaps it is just your MB ottsonic,

The swing at 16ths is subtle but it does change at each value on mine!

Have you measured it or are you just trusting your perception?

It could well be just mine, which was why I asked if anyone would be willing to actually measure it as I did.

Then we'll know. Saying it is 'subtle' is too vague to be useful.
Title: Re: Swing function not working as expected.
Post by: Chi on January 14, 2015, 06:13:24 pm
Saying it is subtle means that it is not a very obvious difference but that there is a difference.  Yes I have recorded the notes produced and Yes they show a variance at each of the 4 values.

I say again - it may be just your MB or maybe your DAW is quantizing the slices IDK.

Why do you need to slice? Why not just line up the first note on the grid and read the timing directly?

Title: Re: Swing function not working as expected.
Post by: ottsonic on January 14, 2015, 06:17:29 pm
Quote
Saying it is subtle means that it is not a very obvious difference but that there is a difference.

Thanks for explaining that. I had no idea.

Quote
I say again - it may be just your MB or maybe your DAW is quantizing the slices IDK.

It may just be my MB. The slices are definitely not quantised.

Quote
Why do you need to slice?

To accurately show where each note lands.

Quote
Why not just line up the first note on the grid and read the timing directly?

I have no idea what you mean by this but please don't explain it to me.

If you have anything useful to add please do.
Title: Re: Swing function not working as expected.
Post by: ottsonic on January 14, 2015, 07:15:37 pm
Yes! Here too  I don't notice anything being swung from the first two positions whilst the 3rd and 4th positions do seem to be the same amount of swing!?

hmmm, very strange.  I am also on the latest frimware and update.

Sounds like it isn't just my MB.

It is easy to convince yourself you're hearing a 'subtle' difference but it only really counts if you measure it accurately.

I think it is highly likely that they're all like it.

Title: Re: Swing function not working as expected.
Post by: Chi on January 15, 2015, 01:20:28 pm
Ok, it seems like you are correct ottsonic!

The swing does NOT change between 1 and 2 or 3 and 4 when using 16ths.

My previous measurments where incorrect as the division setting was wrong! I got confused because my sequencer changes its behaviour according to how the note length knob is set - when set to the shortest value the sequencer only goes up to 1/16th div at the highest val, wheras if the note length knob is set to medium or longer the sequencer will go to 1/32 div.

Anyway -  there is no difference in the swing at 1/16th between 1 and 2 or 3 and 4. 1 and 2 are the same = no swing. 3 and 4 are the same = some swing.

This old thread relates to the arp on the MB but seems to bear relevance to this behaviour
http://forum.arturia.com/index.php?topic=12515.msg31553#msg31553

Title: Re: Swing function not working as expected.
Post by: ottsonic on January 15, 2015, 05:03:17 pm
EDIT: It turns out it's just a limitation of the design.

Fortunately the swing amount available at 16th level is probably about optimum for my taste.
Title: Re: Swing function not working as expected.
Post by: Chi on January 15, 2015, 05:16:55 pm
No problem, you are definiteley right about the swing not working right!

On another note do you see the option to start a new topic here in the Minibrute section of the forum?

 I cannot find any way to do this and need to find out if anyone else experiences an intermittent crackling/hissing sound when turning  some of the knobs especially the LFO amp knob and LFO rate?

Sorry to hijack but I can't find a way to start a new thread!
Title: Re: Swing function not working as expected.
Post by: ottsonic on January 15, 2015, 05:21:03 pm
This old thread relates to the arp on the MB but seems to bear relevance to this behaviour
http://forum.arturia.com/index.php?topic=12515.msg31553#msg31553

Yes, it appears to be a limitation of the design.

Quote
You're right, it's a limitation of the arppeggiator.
As midi clock messages are sent 24 time by quarter notes, at 1/16, available time subdivisions are limited to 3: 50%, 66% and 83%.

Quote
On another note do you see the option to start a new topic here in the Minibrute section of the forum?

No I can't - which is strange because I must have found it before to post my topic.

Maybe Terrym can shed some light on that for you.
Title: Re: Swing function not working as expected.
Post by: ottsonic on January 20, 2015, 02:05:50 pm
EDIT - I feel such a dick.

Arturia replied to my enquiry really promptly and explained the issue.

Unfortunately my email program was having a bad day and sending out emails from an account that I don't use any more and don't monitor. Consequently their replies were going to the wrong inbox.

My apologies to Arturia and their support staff. I hate to be one of those arseholes giving you a hard time when you don't deserve it.

Great synth.
Title: Re: Swing function not working as expected.
Post by: Chi on January 20, 2015, 02:28:57 pm
Geez! I feel for you, I too am in a quandry with support.

I had correspondance with Terrym regarding the noise I experience when adjusting the LFO amp.

He replied quite promptly to say it was the same on his MB but that he feels it is normal.

David at support came back to me today suggesting that I send it in for repair to replace the connector board which contains the switches!? He also wrote that it would cost 42.77 euros plus shipping costs!?

Id really appreciate if you could let me know if this happens with your SE too ottosonic?

Could you just give the LFO amp knob a few turns around max and min values with all osc's turned down and see if you hear a scratchy hiss come and go?  Much obliged sir.
Title: Re: Swing function not working as expected.
Post by: ottsonic on January 20, 2015, 02:38:26 pm
I just did and I think I know what you mean.

Try it with the 'Brute factor' knob turned down to zero and see if it still does it.

On mine, with the 'Brute Factor' turned up anywhere past 9 o'clock, applying LFO to amp at extreme '+' or '-' settings causes a grating noise which is obviously just the feedback circuit kicking in and normal behaviour.

With 'Brute factor' at zero it is completely smooth.



EDIT: By the way, the forum 'New Topic' button appears to be back...
Title: Re: Swing function not working as expected.
Post by: Chi on January 20, 2015, 04:14:43 pm
Thanks otto!

Brute factor is completely zeroed and still scratchy noises - looks like a faulty brute then. Damn.

Well thanks for that.

Here is an example- no brutefactor, no osc's (still high pitch wine) and just turning lfo amp.
Title: Re: Swing function not working as expected.
Post by: Chi on January 29, 2015, 08:54:40 pm
EDIT - I feel such a dick.

Arturia replied to my enquiry really promptly and explained the issue.

Unfortunately my email program was having a bad day and sending out emails from an account that I don't use any more and don't monitor. Consequently their replies were going to the wrong inbox.

My apologies to Arturia and their support staff. I hate to be one of those arseholes giving you a hard time when you don't deserve it.

Great synth.

Good to hear you had some success!  What was the explanation in the end? Forget that, just saw your edited post!
Title: Re: Swing function not working as expected.
Post by: ottsonic on January 29, 2015, 09:00:47 pm
As it was explained in Terrym's earlier post.

It's to do with the way the sequencer is clocked and the number of available divisions per note.

Fortunately the available swing setting at 16th note is pretty useable.

To me anyway.

Did you find an answer to your noise issue?
Title: Re: Swing function not working as expected.
Post by: Chi on January 29, 2015, 10:46:58 pm
Yeah, Ive had to return it to the store for repairs unfortunatley.  David from support confirmed that it needs one of the boards replacing by their techs.

I miss the little brute already. :-[