Arturia Forums
DRUMS => Spark => Spark Technical Issues => Topic started by: Johann on May 04, 2014, 06:52:32 pm
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Hi,
I just upgraded to Spark 2.
What I cant do now (and could on the previous 1.7.2) is to load a new project with the hardware. Now, when I click the big dial nothing happens...
I remember, this was already an issue with an earlier update, which they fixed with the next update...
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+1
I can verify that I also have had this Problem. Via SW is fine.
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It isn't implemented yet
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that'll be why then... why isn't it still beta then I wonder?
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Considering the huge amount of work that's been done over the last month, I don't think it will be long before all the features are added :) This is actually a release candidate as far as I'm aware (but I could be wrong).
If you select the Library Page the Jog wheel will work as it used to, it is just the push/go to library page which isn't working yet.
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I only installed it on my laptop out of curiosity. I shall be rolling right back to 1.7.2 when I get the time.
Stu
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I couldn't go back now, I loaded up VDM the other day and it's so clunky in comparison - but I have clocked a lot of hours with v2 now and become very used to it :)
I haven't had any crashes with the latest version so far, I think really there are only 2/3 urgent bugs to fix.
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Standalone, I imagine it's not far from releasable. Try putting it in Pro Tools, that's another thing entirely
Stu
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Ahhh, I've only worked with standalone and VST
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For me it works (with Spark LE controller). Just press the project button and scroll through the list. After pressing the big know it can take up to 15 seconds before the software starts the load process. Just be patient.
And yes, this needs a fix.
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15 seconds! That's quarter a way through a chorus :)
With the original Spark hardware it does't load, I haven't tried Kosmology's advice about being on a certain software window.
If things aren't implemented yet it shouldn't be called a release version, it should in fact still be in Beta. If it's in beta then we use it as our own risk.
I did this on my laptop, shall be re installing 1.7.2 until things are steady once again.
Stuart
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Hi guys,
you can switch to library panel by using 'Select+Step 7' shortcut.
Kevin
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I thought the 'shortcut' was the big grey knob ! :)
stu
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Hi guys,
you can switch to library panel by using 'Select+Step 7' shortcut.
Kevin
Ok, thats a workaround. But will the Big Knob function be integrated??
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Hi everyone,
We decided to remove the Jog Wheel shortcut because the Library is now a panel, and it seemed more natural to have a shortcut similar to the ones used for other panels.
Best,
Seb.
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When you say 'We' what do you mean?
Stu
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Hi everyone,
We decided to remove the Jog Wheel shortcut because the Library is now a panel, and it seemed more natural to have a shortcut similar to the ones used for other panels.
Best,
Seb.
No! Please :'(
It doesnt hurt to bring the feature back, does it?
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im assuming this is a wind up. Seb?
You can't really be serious, seeing as the biggest knob on the Spark controller, (The hardware box Arturia spent $1000's on R & D) you are about to render useless.. Really?
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Hi everyone,
We decided to remove the Jog Wheel shortcut because the Library is now a panel, and it seemed more natural to have a shortcut similar to the ones used for other panels.
Best,
Seb.
OMG :o NO ... :-\ What happens to the developers and marketers in arturia. Interesting ideas but no better implementation and users support (soft bugs, request improvements etc)
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I think there is a misunderstanding here. You can of course still use your jogwheel you just have to press SELECT + STEP7 buttons first (or just the "Proj." button on Spark LE). Afterwards you can still use your jogwheel to scroll through the list.
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Clearly... I'm guessing the direct access to the Instrument and Kit are going to be in an update. As someone said below 'It's not implemented yet'.
You can of course still use your jogwheel you just have to press SELECT + STEP7 buttons first (or just the "Proj." button on Spark LE)
As far as pressing two buttons before being able to press the button that makes the change on the hardware, that's plain idiocy :) There's direct access to projects which then can be seen on the display, you then click to confirm the change, same with kits and Instruments. Functionality that is in 1.7.2 and prior versions.
Stu
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Ah O.K., got it.
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Clearly... I'm guessing the direct access to the Instrument and Kit are going to be in an update. As someone said below 'It's not implemented yet'.
[...]
But that was not from an official arturia member, was it?
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But that was not from an official arturia member, was it?
A beta Tester I believe. But still, makes sense. Kevin on this thread is the Arturia guy. Kevin, can you shed any light onto this?
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Hi everyone,
We decided to remove the Jog Wheel shortcut because the Library is now a panel, and it seemed more natural to have a shortcut similar to the ones used for other panels.
Best,
Seb.
How is this not a beta release...
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Because the devs had problems with getting it stable in time, the suits posted a release date and it had to go, regardless if it was ready or not.
That's how it works.
The software works, but i need to use the hardware without fiddling around with a mouse or a trackpad, so i'll wait for version 2 to be release ready.
Stu
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> the suits posted a release date and it had to go, regardless if it was ready or not.
I will have to agree with this and as a software developer of 10+ years, I want to give support to the devs behind this program. There is nothing worse than a marketer and boss pushing a release out 2 months before its ready, like they did with Spark 2.
It's not the programmers fault, but I can tell you what they aren't, there egos got crushed on this one because a programmer has a relationship with their code and they know EXACTLY what is wrong with it.
So Arturia Spark devs, yeah we know this program should have been released in June but hey, there are people that understand you want it perfect and hopefully get the time allotted by your bosses to do so.
Mike
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I will let Seb discuss this. He is also an Arturia official and in charge of specifications.
@Mike: thanks for your kind word :)
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Hi everyone,
Let me try to explain the reason why we removed this shortcut:
- In Spark 1.0 -> 1.6, there was no browser for instruments in the software. You could either load from the hardware using the screen, or use the mouse and the drop down menus. When using the hardware workflow you didn't need to be in a specific panel to get it to work.
- In 1.7, we added the Browser, which was implemented as a new pop-up window. It was logical to keep the Jog Wheel click shortcut because this window was separate from the rest of the interface.
- In 2.0, the Library browser is a new panel inside the GUI and not a pop-up window anymore. For this reason we decided that it would be logical to open it in the same way as we open the other panels. The shortcuts for panel selection are: Select+step1 through 8 (select+step7 for Library).
- The Jog Wheel scroll doesn't have any effect unless you are currently viewing the Library panel
- Now that we have the Select+7 shortcut, the jog dial click is redundant.
- We want to keep the Jog Wheel click free for future features.
I hope you get the idea behind this decision, and that it won't be a deal breaker for you.
Seb.
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I'm really sorry. This is not satisfying for me.
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Hi everyone,
Let me try to explain the reason why we removed this shortcut:
- In Spark 1.0 -> 1.6, there was no browser for instruments in the software. You could either load from the hardware using the screen, or use the mouse and the drop down menus. When using the hardware workflow you didn't need to be in a specific panel to get it to work.
- In 1.7, we added the Browser, which was implemented as a new pop-up window. It was logical to keep the Jog Wheel click shortcut because this window was separate from the rest of the interface.
- In 2.0, the Library browser is a new panel inside the GUI and not a pop-up window anymore. For this reason we decided that it would be logical to open it in the same way as we open the other panels. The shortcuts for panel selection are: Select+step1 through 8 (select+step7 for Library).
- The Jog Wheel scroll doesn't have any effect unless you are currently viewing the Library panel
- Now that we have the Select+7 shortcut, the jog dial click is redundant.
- We want to keep the Jog Wheel click free for future features.
I hope you get the idea behind this decision, and that it won't be a deal breaker for you.
Seb.
That's all irrelevant Seb
What about the now redundant big grey know on the unit I spent £400 on?
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Hi everyone,
Let me try to explain the reason why we removed this shortcut:
- In Spark 1.0 -> 1.6, there was no browser for instruments in the software. You could either load from the hardware using the screen, or use the mouse and the drop down menus. When using the hardware workflow you didn't need to be in a specific panel to get it to work.
- In 1.7, we added the Browser, which was implemented as a new pop-up window. It was logical to keep the Jog Wheel click shortcut because this window was separate from the rest of the interface.
- In 2.0, the Library browser is a new panel inside the GUI and not a pop-up window anymore. For this reason we decided that it would be logical to open it in the same way as we open the other panels. The shortcuts for panel selection are: Select+step1 through 8 (select+step7 for Library).
- The Jog Wheel scroll doesn't have any effect unless you are currently viewing the Library panel
- Now that we have the Select+7 shortcut, the jog dial click is redundant.
- We want to keep the Jog Wheel click free for future features.
I hope you get the idea behind this decision, and that it won't be a deal breaker for you.
Seb.
That's like saying
"Oh, and we've removed the pattern functionality, so to switch patterns, you now have to press, Shift 1, Shift 2 etc etc "
Utterly backward.
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Hi everyone,
Let me try to explain the reason why we removed this shortcut:
- In Spark 1.0 -> 1.6, there was no browser for instruments in the software. You could either load from the hardware using the screen, or use the mouse and the drop down menus. When using the hardware workflow you didn't need to be in a specific panel to get it to work.
- In 1.7, we added the Browser, which was implemented as a new pop-up window. It was logical to keep the Jog Wheel click shortcut because this window was separate from the rest of the interface.
- In 2.0, the Library browser is a new panel inside the GUI and not a pop-up window anymore. For this reason we decided that it would be logical to open it in the same way as we open the other panels. The shortcuts for panel selection are: Select+step1 through 8 (select+step7 for Library).
- The Jog Wheel scroll doesn't have any effect unless you are currently viewing the Library panel
- Now that we have the Select+7 shortcut, the jog dial click is redundant.
- We want to keep the Jog Wheel click free for future features.
I hope you get the idea behind this decision, and that it won't be a deal breaker for you.
Seb.
Another prime example of people making decisions when they have no idea of how the unit is meant to be used. Ask any live musician on this board and ask them what they think of removing, what is essentially a preset button. When you're playing live you need that direct access to that page without having to press all manner of other buttons to get there.
Utterly counter intuitive
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Hi everyone,
Let me try to explain the reason why we removed this shortcut:
Seb.
Seb, It's not a shortcut. On the Spark unit It's a physical rotary knob which says "To switch modes, click and hold dial for 1 sec"
Now, when I do this in Spark 2, nothing happens. Are you going to change the lettering on all the Spark units being made?
To maybe: "To switch modes, firstly press Shift and 7, then click and hold dial for 1 sec"
What you have to remember is that you are supporting a piece of hardware, this isn't all about the Spark software and therefore the decisions you made with the conception of the hardware unit, absolutely have be honoured throughout the life of the software.
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I thought Arturia said that they will include the shortcut in the next update...
They just were in a rush for spark 2... Drag and drop is another feature that is not ready yet...If you want to load your samples you have to do it from the library...
I dont have a problem to wait a little bit for the next update...Spark 2 is so nice...
But these features cannot just be removed... So if you mean when you say ' we want to keep the jog wheel click free for future updates' that the shortcut wont happen ...Please reconsider
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I dont have a problem to wait a little bit for the next update...Spark 2 is so nice...
Realy? :o http://www.arturia.com/evolution/smf/index.php?topic=82248.0
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First thing is first.
Support the hardware and honour the decisions you made with the conception of the hardware unit, all hardware buttons absolutely have to be honoured throughout the life of the software. We are not against future improvements to the GUI or the software workflow, but there are two things to be considered here.
Hardware then Software. I think that the upgrade has devalued the ownership of the original hardware unit.
Stu
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Well, since I started this threat, I feel a little responsible to calm the situation a bit down.
I try to understand both sides, but there seem to be some unlucky verbalizations.
to the customers (including myself):
Of course we want a product that does everything and more and NOW. With Spark we can already see, that the product came a long way, and there is no reason to believe, that it stops here. It is our responsibility to tell the developers our opinion, so that they can make a better product (better for the user, because he gets what he wants / better for the developer, because happy customers improve credibility). I personally DONT think, that demanding features in such an aggressive tone is the right way. First of all, you dont motivate anyone by crying like a little child - you could make it even worse! Secondly, be glad, that Arturia offers us a platform to share our thoughts after all - this is a first step towards a solution and you can be a part of it.
to the developers:
Your comunity is your capital. I personaly think, that you can only win, when you take your customerfeedback seriously! That also includes beiing honest. Of course my first thought, when I read Sebs explanation, was "yeah sure, they couldnt stick to the deadline, so they try to whitewash a missing feature, by implying potential new features (which also arent there yet!)". I can only believe you. But that doesn't exactly create credibility, although you try to preserve a professional image. It makes me as a user feel patronized. It may sound illogical to any boss, but to admit a weakness can bring you sympathy.
to the bosses:
Quality doesnt cost - it pays.
this were just basic thoughts of mine. Now one last comment - an idea for a compromise regarding Sparks big clickable dial:
Why dont you just create an option in the preferences which allows you to select, how the dial is working? This way everybody can be happy. (and btw.: this could be a solution for other similar problems)
Spark is such a great and unique machine. That this debate became so (how shall I put it) emotional (?) shows us, that it has great potential!
love an peace 8)
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User experience is everything. It can make or break a product. Developers, however genius they may be at code, are not users. Marketeers however good at what they do, are not users. CEO's are not users. The people that use these products day in, day out on projects and their work are the people that make them what they are.
If this were only about software then it wouldn't matter a single jot. Either it's this shortcut here, or it's that one there, It doesn't matter it's software, you can make it what you want because it's virtual. But... When you have specifically made hardware to facilitate the use of software, you have to be 100% sure that the functionality stays the same, because you have hardware compatibility to uphold.
A physical product that many many people throughout the globe, own, removing functionality that has specific control and lets be honest, that has cost the company thousands of dollars/pounds/euros to design, test & build; is short sighted. It shows that development has been focused on the software and corners have been cut to shoehorn in compatibility with another controller (SparkLE).
I'm sure people on here do demand features, but for this thread it's all about questioning one being taken away. Many demands are very specific to someones workflow and doesn't really help the wider product.
The forum is here partially to deflect technical support, and yes that is useful for both user and company. Crying like a child? Aggressive!? Maybe you're reading the wrong thread.
Stu
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Hi everyone,
Let me try to explain the reason why we removed this shortcut:
- In Spark 1.0 -> 1.6, there was no browser for instruments in the software. You could either load from the hardware using the screen, or use the mouse and the drop down menus. When using the hardware workflow you didn't need to be in a specific panel to get it to work.
- In 1.7, we added the Browser, which was implemented as a new pop-up window. It was logical to keep the Jog Wheel click shortcut because this window was separate from the rest of the interface.
- In 2.0, the Library browser is a new panel inside the GUI and not a pop-up window anymore. For this reason we decided that it would be logical to open it in the same way as we open the other panels. The shortcuts for panel selection are: Select+step1 through 8 (select+step7 for Library).
- The Jog Wheel scroll doesn't have any effect unless you are currently viewing the Library panel
- Now that we have the Select+7 shortcut, the jog dial click is redundant.
- We want to keep the Jog Wheel click free for future features.
I hope you get the idea behind this decision, and that it won't be a deal breaker for you.
Seb.
Seb, I don't understand the use of the word 'shortcut'. A shortcut is used in software in order to get where you want to go, quickly. They can be moved and assigned to whatever you like. Obviously in software packages, they are set up by the developer.
There are myriad midi controllers out on the market where the user can assign a particular parameter to a particular control. They don't have specific controls mapped and they can be routed to however the user wants them. However, the range of Arturia products are specifically mapped. All the keylab series, the laboratory series etc etc. They were designed and built in order to facilitate the use of a specific software product.
That said...
I mentioned to Kevin today that the 4 sub menus once in the library need to be set in the prefs, as by default it lands on Instrument. If that sub menu could be set by the user so that it stays on a particular saved state, shift 7 to activate the library would be easier to workaround as it would be saved in a constant position. With the added view of the library able to show/hide view of the kits and banks, this could be a pretty powerful.
Equally, the scroll wheel destination could be set by the user to either Project, Kit, Instru. or disk.
And finally, what's wrong with having two buttons do the same thing. Your shift 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, for continuity and direct access for live and time critical performance driven usage.
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I hear your argument stuey. The CDM hardware jog dial is big, clickable, and already labeled with its functionality. It probably should work as labeled. :-\
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Really disappointing, I should have returned this thing when I had the chance, instead I waited for 2.0 like a fool.
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- In 2.0, the Library browser is a new panel inside the GUI and not a pop-up window anymore. For this reason we decided that it would be logical to open it in the same way as we open the other panels. The shortcuts for panel selection are: Select+step1 through 8 (select+step7 for Library).
- The Jog Wheel scroll doesn't have any effect unless you are currently viewing the Library panel
- Now that we have the Select+7 shortcut, the jog dial click is redundant.
- We want to keep the Jog Wheel click free for future features.
I hope you get the idea behind this decision, and that it won't be a deal breaker for you.
Seb.
Oh man, if that's the type of decision making process your dev team uses, I'm out. This isn't going to get any better. Why beta test at all then?
Out.
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I hear your argument stuey. The CDM hardware jog dial is big, clickable, and already labeled with its functionality. It probably should work as labeled. :-\
Finally, reason +1 karma coming your way!
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It's the bias to the software that I find unnerving. It's like they forgot they made a hardware box.
This is one huge error on what is, a really really great like drum machine. I would urge the dev team to give the update to a producer and a set of live DJ/ Musicians etc and see what the feedback is.
If you're in the middle of a mix with a client breathing down your neck and you keep making the same mistakes due to the biggest knob on the box having been disabled. Or you're in a live situation and you don't have time to click all over the place to get where you want to go.
STu
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Seb, you're silence is deafening man!
In 2.0, the Library browser is a new panel inside the GUI and not a pop-up window anymore. For this reason we decided that it would be logical to open it in the same way as we open the other panels. The shortcuts for panel selection are: Select+step1 through 8 (select+step7 for Library).
Again, focusing on the software. What about the hardware integration?
Stu
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well lets hope they fix this i cant see how shift and f7 is a shortcut when just one click with the mouse is quicker bring bag our jog wheel please if you do not do this then i suggest you remove all videos from the site which show the jog wheel in use to access library and for selecting kits as for a new customer this would be misleading and possibly a trading standards issue
anyway im switching back to spark 1.7 until this gets fixed as normally maybe 70% of the time when i use spark i am standing up instead of sitting down in my chair and having to reach for my mouse whilst using spark disrupts the workflow you see when i use spark i pretty much just look at the unit and not my laptop screens
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(Possibly) please don't quote me, I'm not certain on this.
But I think the dev guys are in talks about Spark 2 workflow and how things should be, and potentially making changes. Based on forum posts and bug reports these should be looked at in further updates.
Thanks, Stuart
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I have to say I preferred the jog wheel controlling the library...it feels natural, and as mentioned its labelled to do this. The shift 7 function should remain but utilising the jogwheel was fast and contributed to Sparks workflow. I think its a big mistake adding another step to that workflow...pressing shift means that both hands are now used where one sufficed before.
Its no deal breaker for me but I hope theres a rethink on this, Sparks support has been great at listening to its users so far.
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Yes, you me and lots of other people.
I think i've convinced some Arturia people it's worth re-implimenting
Thanks, Stuart