Arturia Forums
Harware Legacy versions => Origin => General Discussion on Origin => Topic started by: DeFrigge on January 13, 2008, 03:57:02 pm
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I just visited the online store of one of Europes biggest music gear sellers.
During the last two months they had put the Arturia Origin online as soon available. After I had asked them for an aproximate delivery date they told me that Arturia had announced January/February 2008 as probable delivery date. ""So probably March", one of them added with a smile.
Now I went back to the site and find that they took the Orgin from their pages. From my view this might well be an indication that the Origin will not even ship in the first quarter 2008. Bad news? Well, at least more than "deafening silence", which the Arturia team seems to regard as a proper way of dealing with us. Time to forget about a device which would be nice but is no real deal, after more than one whole long year after announcement?
At least this is *no* *way* of treating possible customers!
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Yup - now it's sometime in 2008 - I suspect the project required too much RnD, capital, time etc to pull off - when it's delivered I suspect it will be there last product and not finished- shame. My money has been saved for months it is about to go elsewhere - dam I wanted a functioning Origin. :twisted: :evil:
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If you walk-around towards Los Angeles in the following days, you might notice something roaring on the Arturia NAMM's booth (#6405 by the way) :wink:
We've never been so close to finalization, and we assume it takes badly longer than expected, certainly causing some impatience or kind of deception, but we're sure it quite worths the waiting...
Well, open your ears at the NAMM show! :)
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Antoine great to hear, It still leaves us without any clues as to when we will be able to buy one - what is the current street eta?
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Sorry, Antoine, but a demo device at Namm one year after announcement is *not* anything which will convince me to hold back my saved money much longer!
The only acceptable thing now is a reliable (+/- 2 weeks) release date. And if this release date is later than March 2008, I am definitely off. And I know from some other musicians that it is the same with them.
This is no hostility, it is just everyday music making: if you can get lots of alternatives - like Recepetor with the extremely flexible and powerful u-he Zebra 2.2, or new analog synths, just to name some of half a dozen possibilities, and Namm 2008 with the new Access Snow and others adding quite a few more - nobody will wait forever instead of grasping sonic possibilities which are available on the market, providing you with excellent sound choices.
This just means a *heavy* loss of customers for Arturia if you don't get things done latest(!) until march. Your small company, having invested so much into this very interesting development, should really consider their time table now. They will do better with a working Origin where one sound module or effect or some part of the modulation matrix is still missing than with no Origin at all. I can only warn you to run that risk.
It will not hurt you when I'm off with one of the alternatives for quite a while (no money growing on trees here), but I am not the only one ready to leave...
So please remember urgent minimum requirements of the present situation:
- clear cut, reliable time table for all your (many!) potential customers
- release date not after March!
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I know some people are getting impatient, but the longer the wait, the more money I can save for it. :)
Hopefully I'll be ready when it's ready.
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Oh jeez, you're demanding they release it within the next few months finished or not then? :roll:
I hope Arturia doesn't have too much invested in origin... It's expensive enough that there's a good chance it won't do well, and I wouldn't want Arturia to disappear... Losing such good software over a foray into hardware development would be a tragedy...
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Oh jeez, you're demanding they release it within the next few months finished or not then? :roll:
I hope Arturia doesn't have too much invested in origin... It's expensive enough that there's a good chance it won't do well, and I wouldn't want Arturia to disappear... Losing such good software over a foray into hardware development would be a tragedy...
Yes, I feel very much the same way.
I think Origin is a good move for Arturia, but it's chancy and I really hope it comes off.
One of the reasons its a good move is that it gives Arturia chance to show what they can do without problems from elsewhere. Their software sometimes suffers from problems caused by the shortcomings of operating sysems over which they have no control, and apparently (I haven't put this to the test myself) from compatibility issues with third-party software sequencers and so on over which, again, they have no influence. Origin at least gives them a chance to develop the entire instrument, platform as well.
My concern for quite a while is that prospective buyers of Arturia synths may be put off by the negative comments being made by people who have problems. Of course genuine problems should be addressed and not minimised, if at all possible, but there's quite a lot of anti-Arturia feeling in some quarters. It may seem more serious than it is because these forums and other Internet synth forums tend to fill up with comments from people having problems, while satisfied musicians tend to just get on with their music and aren't so noticable. But it's the perception, rather than the reality, that may affect future sales most.
While there are people whose concerns are genuine and I'm sure would be addressed, given the time a very small and specialised company needs, there are also people who exaggerate the problems - such as, a softsynth is apparently `useless' to some people if you have trouble getting software to play it for you and you have to play it by hand, like a `real' instrument.
Then there's the guy who some people take seriously who complains loudly about the MMV not being like a `real' Mg modular, despite having zero experience of the original hardware Mg modular. He's not taken seriously by people who know about Mgs, but he's fooled a few others with his lengthy lists of alleged shortcomings with the MMV.
My fear is that Arturia may be put out of business due to people being put off buying their products because of bad publicity. If that happens, by the time people realise just how good their synths are it'll be too late to buy them and any updates that would have happened will never appear either.
Some really great companies have vanished in the past. ARP is perhaps the most sadly missed. Mg went as well, but managed to come back, thankfully. It'd be tragic if Arturia went the same way - and far too late if people are then saying `hey, they were a great company. It's a pity they're not here now.'
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They have excellent chances to be the first to deliver real analog sound and feel in a hardware device. Despite some bugs their emulations are very good.
Until now
- the Mg Voyager is a nice synth for it's own sound, but it does *not* sound like a miniMg
- the Mg Little Phatty comes closer concerning filters but not overall sound
- the Prophet 8 has only remote similarity with the original Prophet sounds and is *no* substitute for other analog classics
- the Creamware hardware was not bad at all, but still not close enough to the originals, and meanwhile the company does not exist any more
So Arturia definitely have their hardware chance with really nice emulations of the analog gear, coming closer than most or all so far.
*But*:
They only have a chance if they finally deliver within a *few* weeks.
I made a definite choice for myself:
For me personally they have a deadline until end of march. If I see the Origin in store until then, ready for testing, I will test it, and if it sounds great and works ok, buy it right in the store.
If not, I will immeadiately order a Fantom G workstation instead and not buy anything from Arturia for a very long time. It's as simple as that.
Others will decide for themselves, but Arturia should not underestimate the time factor for people who have been waiting for an announced product so long - unacceptably long! They might really come into very difficult business times if they don't get it done very fast now.
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I'm hopeful that the origin will be delivered in the next few weeks. I suspect 2008 will see a number of improvements and delivery of a really fine machine, that said I'm in full support of Arturia and will put my money in their pocket - assuming it's delivered no later than the end of March.
Without wanting to start a flame war on either release date or sound I find the list above a bit "odd".
Real analogue compared to VA's - Mgs not delivering, mine does. I'm not sure what the point is, other than Origin is very much a VA not an RA and it's selling point is just that :?
As for delivering real analogue sound ...well that'll be real RA then.
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They have excellent chances to be the first to deliver real analog sound and feel in a hardware device. Despite some bugs their emulations are very good.
Until now
- the Mg Voyager is a nice synth for it's own sound, but it does *not* sound like a miniMg
- the Mg Little Phatty comes closer concerning filters but not overall sound
- the Prophet 8 has only remote similarity with the original Prophet sounds and is *no* substitute for other analog classics
- the Creamware hardware was not bad at all, but still not close enough to the originals, and meanwhile the company does not exist any more
So Arturia definitely have their hardware chance with really nice emulations of the analog gear, coming closer than most or all so far.
*But*:
They only have a chance if they finally deliver within a *few* weeks.
I made a definite choice for myself:
For me personally they have a deadline until end of march. If I see the Origin in store until then, ready for testing, I will test it, and if it sounds great and works ok, buy it right in the store.
If not, I will immeadiately order a Fantom G workstation instead and not buy anything from Arturia for a very long time. It's as simple as that.
Others will decide for themselves, but Arturia should not underestimate the time factor for people who have been waiting for an announced product so long - unacceptably long! They might really come into very difficult business times if they don't get it done very fast now.
- the "Creamware" hardware was not bad at all, but still not close enough to the originals, and meanwhile the company does not exist any more
The name creamware is not manufacturing....however all of the Creamware developers work for Soniccore which is continuing the creamware line under soniccore....
(http://www.sonic-core.net/images/logo.gif)
(http://www.sonic-core.net/images/sc-asb.jpg)
http://www.sonic-core.net/en/products/synths.html
I might add, I have a real hammond, and an ASB B4000 which are very close except for the weight loss, and the prodyssey I have includes a Mg filter, and about 10 more oscillators than my original had.....
the sounds are very real... I am seeking the Origin so I can replace my CS80 on the road.... and I look forward to its polyAT which a fantom G wont have...
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Without wanting to start a flame war on either release date or sound I find the list above a bit "odd".
Real analogue compared to VA's - Mgs not delivering, mine does. I'm not sure what the point is, other than Origin is very much a VA not an RA and it's selling point is just that :?
As for delivering real analogue sound ...well that'll be real RA then.
Pip, I've been playing the MiniMg and later the Mg Prodigy.
My disappointment with the present Mg line is that they sound fine, but in my ears not quite like the original(s), despite being RA.
That's what I liked about Arturias VAs, that they - of course not sounding identical - still come closer to the originals than much other gear around, *including* RA and VA.
So what you find "odd" is exactly what I meant: that in my ears Arturia might have the chance to deliver a hardware VA which has a more fat and smooth 'analog' sound, compared to the originals, than the competition.
If your opinion differs, no problem and certainly no flame war, but I stay with mine...
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I might add, I have a real hammond, and an ASB B4000 which are very close except for the weight loss, and the prodyssey I have includes a Mg filter, and about 10 more oscillators than my original had.....
the sounds are very real... I am seeking the Origin so I can replace my CS80 on the road.... and I look forward to its polyAT which a fantom G wont have...
Hi slammah,
I heard about sonic core, but I don't see devices like the Minimax in the big online stores since a while: so I guess until now there is nothing but *plans* to continue the product line?
Concerning "sounds are very real", opinions differ.
Creamware Minimax and Arp were fine from my view, but not as close as the Arturia emulations.
For me that's not quite the case with the B4000: I regard it as one of the worst Hammond clones on the market, completely missing the warmth of the original, having a basic plastic sound character and sounding especially dreadfull if you play rock, r&b or jazz solos in the upper ranges. I could go into details here, but this is not the place to do so.
So same in this case: no flame war intended. If your judgement is completely other than mine, I have no problems with that.
And for the Fantom G: this is no Synth alternative at all, but a workstation with advanced Live features not to be compared with the Origin. I just can't afford buying both and will decide as I said.
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Just an observation -
I haven't tried the Creamware MiniMax myself, but I know two musicians who played the MiniMg extensively during the 70s who now use the MiniMax instead. I don't want to name drop, especially when it comes to comments on instruments, but both are professional recording artists - one is regarded by many as one of the great synth pioneers and the other recorded some well-respected MiniMg solos.
One told me the MiniMax was `very close' to the original MiniMg. It's evidently close enough, as he could easily get another Mini if he wanted to. (He also spoke well of the Arturia MiniV, BTW) The other bought the MiniMax after playing the first musician's instrument.
Of course it depends on what you want to do. If an instrument is very close, but the one thing it doesn't quite do is the thing you want, then it's not the instrument for you. On the other hand if it exceeds the Mini in other respects, it'll be your choice. But I thought the opinion of two Mg-experienced professional musicians counts for something.
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The problem with real Minis is that they are too precious and too vulnerable to take them to gigs. Even people heavily relying on them in the studio, like Lillo Scrimali and others, hardly ever do that.
So the Minimax, never out of tune and polyphonic, for most musicians using it is clearly the better choice for rehearsals and gigs. It's a fine piece of gear, no doubt.
But I still prefer the for my ears even more smooth and fat sound of Arturias Mini and Modular emulations, comparing VAs with the origninal ;-)
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I might add, I have a real hammond, and an ASB B4000 which are very close except for the weight loss, and the prodyssey I have includes a Mg filter, and about 10 more oscillators than my original had.....
the sounds are very real... I am seeking the Origin so I can replace my CS80 on the road.... and I look forward to its polyAT which a fantom G wont have...
Hi slammah,
I heard about sonic core, but I don't see devices like the Minimax in the big online stores since a while: so I guess until now there is nothing but *plans* to continue the product line?
Concerning "sounds are very real", opinions differ.
Creamware Minimax and Arp were fine from my view, but not as close as the Arturia emulations.
For me that's not quite the case with the B4000: I regard it as one of the worst Hammond clones on the market, completely missing the warmth of the original, having a basic plastic sound character and sounding especially dreadfull if you play rock, r&b or jazz solos in the upper ranges. I could go into details here, but this is not the place to do so.
So same in this case: no flame war intended. If your judgement is completely other than mine, I have no problems with that.
And for the Fantom G: this is no Synth alternative at all, but a workstation with advanced Live features not to be compared with the Origin. I just can't afford buying both and will decide as I said.
The ASB line is in full "production" at SonicCore.... they are being built ... they recently lost a distributor however and are in a process of hooking up to a new one...
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Update on new devices from NAMM 2008.
Announced delivery dates at big German seller:
- Waldorf Blofeld: week 6 / 2008
- Access Virus Snow: week 9 / 2008
- Roland Fantom G: week 17 /2008
- Arturia Origin: not even ocurring at all!!
1. Does this mean Arturia has still not been able to name a delivery date at all to *any* seller?
2. If so, how can *anyone* be optimistic about a delivery date during the next weeks?
I wish the Arturia team success, but trust in this comany is running short among many musicians I know meanwhile (they complain about weak support, terrible delivery delay etc.)...
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i think blofeld has been delayed til march.
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DeFrigge - come on - be realistic. It's like you're trying to threaten or bargain your way into getting an Origin on *your* time table, like the five stages of grief or something.
:?
It's frustrating to wait, but *no*one* is more frustrated than Arturia. But quite frankly, the only thing that would be worse than being late is being late *and* getting it wrong. This is a very ambitious instrument with many innovative technologies and end user features - and Arturia has learned the "lesson" of seeing the Virus TI falling on its face and has held back its own VSTi integration until they *know* its right. Look at the SonicCore Solaris - they had to switch DSP programmers at the end of last year and now they're considering a change in the core DSP chip they're using on the synth. At the end of the Solaris demo on Sonic State from this year's NAMM show Dave Bowen said that they've essentially had to start over from scratch. What's it been - like two years now? So I think a little bit of perspective is in order.
If you find a synth that meets your needs and is available today - get it today. That's it. If you see Origin and think that it might be 'the answer' for you, then just hold on a bit longer. Either way, remember that it's about the music, and if it's not about that - then you're doing it wrong.
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Hi Houston,
it's rather not meant to "threaten or bargain".
It's meant to give Arturia feedback about two things:
- a) their questionable way of unclear, misleading (one big store telling me the Origin should be delivered in February - adding so probably March - and then taking it from their offers altogether because the old delivery info obviously didn't mean anything any more) or in part non- communication.
- b) a strategically quite questionable decision in their product development (yes, this is *their* decision and has to be respected, but still can be criticized by musicians referring to their 2007 announcement).
concerning a) I know some more keyboarders really feeling disgust about the present kind of non-communication after raising high expectations in 2007. You cant't seriously show a new device on Namm 2007 and not even be able to name a halfway realistic delivery date at Namm 2008! And this while still not even having any mp3 sound demos on your site, just a video showing basic functions without really helpful sound impressions.
concerning -b):
I found the Access way, despite their problems, *much* better. You are right: they delivered the TI when they thought wrong that is was basically stable and only minor things to do. And yes, I had 3 or 4 months using the new device when I experienced big integration flaws and even some standalone issues and found it hard to accept that. But then after their first major upgrade I had nearly no more problems in live use, and after some more upgrades it became my favourite synth so far. Looking back, I was glad to have it early, being able to do music and develop ideas since many months with it. If they had waited until the last update in autumn 2007 before delivery, I would have missed *a* *lot*!
In the Arturia case they decided to change from just delivering the sound modules in hardware form to delivering a clomplex project with full interaction of all parts of the modules plus PC integration. This is a *very* eager project for such a small company, perhaps *too* eager for first edition delivery. From my view a completely wrong decision.
As potential customer I would have much preferred it if they had done it in two steps:
- a) deliver the Origin with separate synth modules in working condition
- b) deliver a major OS upgarde with possible part interaction of all modules
From my view that would be the right way to deal with "it's about the music", because a lot of music with nice sounds could already be used.
What might happen now could be much worse:
- first adding endless delivery delays, perhaps finally ending up anywhere between 1 1/4 and 1 3/4 years after announcement at Namm 2007.
- and then *still* having the users become the "broader/deeper" betatesters who reluctantly find all the flaws that no small beta team does find in short time in such a complex system. So I doubt very much that the still lasting time with unclear delivery date will lead to a flawless (or even halfway flawless) system. sold in the near future.
Now we have February 2008, and still no mp3s or serious delivery time...
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Look - all of your points are valid, it just doesn't apply to Arturia more than any other company. Prattle on all you want, but you can't believe that you're the tail that will wag the dog.
Name one company who delivered their first hardware synthesizer on time, with all features, and without a single bug.
You can't.
Even my Yamaha SY99 had to have a mainboard replacement because the effects chip would spike the outputs and blow out your amp and speakers - and they are a major manufacturer - using "proven" technology that *still* had a showstopper bug.
Come back to reality. It's not as dire as you would make it seem.
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I'm living in the same reality as you, even concerning keyboards ;-)
But it's not altogether arbitrary and the same with all.
Among all keyboards I ever was interested in after announcement, I can't remember any manufacturer with *that* amount of delay and still unable to communicate a halfway concrete release date...
Though while I think of it, most recent things like Waldorf Zarenbourg come to my mind.
Else I agree:
Announcement habits and quality management have become pure madness in times of short product circles and irresponsible artificial product hype.
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DeFrigge - yup 8)
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If it makes you feel any better, (and somehow I doubt that it will) at least I can verify that the Origin is "in the wild". I just got a desktop unit yesterday. Here's a picture of it stationed temporarily in my studio (on a hefty music stand I typically use for sketching scores).
(http://www.hhaynes.com/images/Arturia/Origin%20005.JPG)
I'm working on the final touches to the user manual and will do some beta testing and probably a few demos while I'm at it. So, in case you were worried that Arturia was sitting back and lighting cigars with $100 bills, rest assured that they're working very hard and making significant progress toward release.
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Don't worry, I welcome any kind of progress which makes delivery within some weeks even a remote possibility. ;-)
Yes, and I'm looking forward to hear some demos from you to get a first mp3 impression finally. *If* it is possible it would be fine if there could be one or two Jan-Hammer-like Mini lead sounds among them, if you know what I mean.
All the best with writing the final manual revision ...
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Great to see it in the wild 8) , after so much delay a shipping date would be more welcome. That said at least we now know it's close.
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...Look at the SonicCore Solaris - they had to switch DSP programmers at the end of last year and now they're considering a change in the core DSP chip they're using on the synth. At the end of the Solaris demo on Sonic State from this year's NAMM show Dave Bowen said that they've essentially had to start over from scratch. What's it been - like two years now?
Houston,
It's John Bowen, not Dave Bowen - I guess my affiliation with Dave Smith is causing the confusion?
We started the project in October 2006, and the new programmer started in August 2007, so we essentially lost a year of development time.
-john bowen
p.s. technically, it's not SonicCore Solaris - it is my design, and will be sold by my company, John Bowen Synth Design
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...Look at the SonicCore Solaris - they had to switch DSP programmers at the end of last year and now they're considering a change in the core DSP chip they're using on the synth. At the end of the Solaris demo on Sonic State from this year's NAMM show Dave Bowen said that they've essentially had to start over from scratch. What's it been - like two years now?
Houston,
It's John Bowen, not Dave Bowen - I guess my affiliation with Dave Smith is causing the confusion?
We started the project in October 2006, and the new programmer started in August 2007, so we essentially lost a year of development time.
-john bowen
p.s. technically, it's not SonicCore Solaris - it is my design, and will be sold by my company, John Bowen Synth Design
Thanks for the clarifications. Good luck with your project.
Apologies for the name mixup. I met Dave after-hours at a NAMM show back in the mid 90s when I worked for Bob at Big Briar. Tom Oberheim was there along with the President of Roland Corp (with a translator) and a Scottish Emu sales guy that showed up in a kilt. They jokingly referred to it as "the dead president's dinner" which has lost it's luster now that Bob has passed on. Everyone laughed at the jokes three times - once when the Scotsman told it - once when someone made his English understandable to the translator - and a final time when the President of Roland got to the translated punch line. Lots of wine that night. Those were good times. Anyway, nice to meet you online - hope to do so in person some day soon.
Cheers,
Houston
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The prize for most irrelevant name dropping in order to validate importance when caught spouting on the net goes to....
( jokes :) )
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The prize for most irrelevant name dropping in order to validate importance when caught spouting on the net goes to....
( jokes :) )
"spouting on the net"?
Dude - joke all you want - but I didn't get "caught spouting". Go back to the NAMM demo for Solaris on Sonic State (http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=5988) and listen to what John *actually says* at the end of the piece.
we lost a coding guy and [uh] we had to start, kind of, basically over again
You can snipe about name dropping - but what you witnessed here was John "adding texture" to that comment and not much more. The bottom line is that I've been there (in the synth business) done that (seen delays from the inside of a small company trying to make it) and anonymous sniping jokers have most often been nowhere and have done nothing.
( jokes :D ) :roll:
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"been nowhere and have done nothing"
I went to post box earlier today and took in the mail.
Not as impressive as your dinner party though :(
Don't take yourself or anyone else too serious :lol:
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"been nowhere and have done nothing"
I went to post box earlier today and took in the mail.
Not as impressive as your dinner party though :(
Don't take yourself or anyone else too serious :lol:
Dinner party? Dude - I spent a few years as a student and several more as half of a two-man shop next to the man that was the genesis of the synthesizer industry. The dinner party was the least of it. Don't belittle me and then try to play it off by making a flippant remark. If you haven't learned enough about this world to show even the thinnest veneer of respect to others, you're not going to get much further than the mailbox. And believe me - no one takes an anonymous nobody seriously. So you don't need to crawl back into the thread to show how clever you are. We got that already from your erudicious posts that spring from your font of knowledge between trips to the post box. Good bye. Troll.
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I'm working on the final touches to the user manual and will do some beta testing and probably a few demos while I'm at it.
That was nearly a month ago.
Any feedback?
Any demos so far?
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+1
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I'm working on the final touches to the user manual and will do some beta testing and probably a few demos while I'm at it.
That was nearly a month ago.
Any feedback?
Any demos so far?
Sorry guys - believe it or not, this isn't my only project. I was hoping to get something done this weekend, but the real world intervened and another weekend slipped by.
As I said in the KVR forum: I've had the pleasure of working with a prototype Origin unit for a few weeks now. The main task for me is to complete a section of the user manual that focuses on the software "pages" that are displayed through the LCD interface. The real beauty of this is the level of integration between the firmware and the front-panel controls. It's difficult to get that across here without getting into a overabundance of detail, but I'll just summarize by saying it's extremely well thought out.
And while I'm here, I've got to say that this is a spectacular sounding synth. I have to get approval in order to go into more detail, but I think that when they get around to publishing some detailed audio demos then you'll be able to hear what I'm talking about without me gushing ad nauseum in text. An mp3 is worth a thousand words and all that.
That said, I think that a bit of video capture on the tweakability of this synth is in order. The videos on their site do a good job of showing some of the "primitive operations", but it's the synergy of this synth that makes is really shine. Hopefully they'll get around to doing some of that work - or - will approve me to do some video walkthroughs at some point. I'm sure that will be after the draft of the manual is done, but it's something I'm really eager to do, so I hope there's a chance to show off the Origin sooner rather than later.
If I can find the time (and complete the draft for most of the manual section I'm working on now) I'll try to do a few things this weekend. However, there's a lot of dimension and depth to this axe, and finding the right way to put into printed word the breadth and scope of its myriad functions is not a trivial task. I'm still discovering this synth - and quite frankly that process of finding out all of the things they've done (and done so well) is an incredibly enjoyable but somewhat time consuming process.
And quite frankly, it's possible that I could get knocked out of the box again this weekend. That's life. Last weekend my motorcycle was broken into (it's a Suzuki Burgman 650 with lots of open and lockable compartments) and I lost most of the day Saturday making reports with the police and filing a claim with insurance and the property owner where we rent our apartment. On Sunday we had a film director over to our house for a meeting with my wife on a series of projects, and I managed to do some demos for him in the studio and am now attached to do sound design, score and final mix for a slate of films.
Believe it or not, these things take precedence over your desire for an mp3 to scrutinize.
:wink:
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Well, it was your offer, and I'm just asking about a month later what became of it...
Seems everything connected to Arturia gets into the slow motion zone for many different reasons, but surprisingly always with the exact same result guaranteed ;-)
I'll leave this forum soon and get myself gear which is part of the real world. Next time I will even ask for any Arturia gear will be one or rather two years later, no matter what they do in the meantime. Life is too much fun for this out-of-controld-dimension of postponing endlessly...
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Dude - whatever. You aren't the tail that wags the dog. I've said this already. If you have a need and there's a synth out there that satisfies it, go for it. There are plenty of people out there who are more than happy to wait for Arturia to get it right. There are countless posts on the internet where some poor soul says "Boy I sure wish I had waited to buy *synth B* . Now that I have *synth A* I regret it."
:roll:
You may be one of those people some day. Think of the people that had to wait more than a year for their Virus TI to work. I'd rather Arturia wait on delivering the instrument or hold back on features rather than have that nightmare on their hands.
While it's not in production, the Origin certainly exists, and those who wait will not be disappointed. This beast is *so*much more than the plug-ins - it has synergy - greater than the sum of its parts. I'm not going to say that if you're only looking for the plug-ins in hardware form that it's more than you can handle, but I will say that there's a great deal more "under the hood" than boilerplates based on the emulations. Even if it was only that, this instrument would be worth it for the realtime control and effects alone. If you opt to miss out, that's on you.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
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This synth might have been a welcome addition to my other other gear, but nothing utterly needed and nothing to hold any breath for. We're talking about a nice little variant of subtractive synthesis with interesting modular characteristics, not more and not less. So don't try to talk anyone into kind of seventh synth wonder about something which is just another synth. ;-)
By the way, I play my Access TI Keyboard quite from the start of delivery, and it certainly didn't take me a year to use it intensively and have a lot of fun with it - lasting until today. The same is true for most TI users I know, so better don't hide behind the TI to justify Arturia's heavy delivery mess: that's quite a poor kind of reasoning. Access *never* treated its customers the way Arturia does, having them hang around endless without anything substantial to offer.
So from my view all your dog and tail talk is just a reflection of pure helplessness after not being able to deliver in any acceptable time. Sure some people will buy the thing when it's finally out, so what? Others will behave like me, buying according to their own rules, and not according to any companies schedule. Perhaps I will even buy it (or something similar or better) in two years, who knows? Just certainly not now with a delivery after March, after all this annoying delivery tango. Again: so what? There's always plenty of choice, and no door ever hit me on any way out, since I'm well able to close doors behind me whenever I want. :-)
Question to the moderator: if I wish to have my user account deleted after Frankfurt Music Fair, that's certainly no problem, is it?
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By the way, I play my Access TI Keyboard quite from the start of delivery, and it certainly didn't take me a year to use it intensively and have a lot of fun with it - lasting until today.
Right - but you miss the point - here (http://www.kvraudio.com/news/2518.html)is states that it was planning ship in December of 2004 - and here (http://news.harmony-central.com/Newp/2005/Virus-TI-Ship-Date.html)is states that it's planning to ship in October 2005.
:roll:
And to boot - it took them another year or so after that to get their plug-in integration working, and they're still struggling with it today in some configurations.
My point is: no company is immune to delivery delays.
As far as your denegration of the Origin without a single scentilla of knowledge of its architecture, I'll just way "wait and see".
:twisted:
Why wait for MusikMesse to have your account deleted - just stop posting! How hard is that?
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Right - but you miss the point - here (http://www.kvraudio.com/news/2518.html)is states that it was planning ship in December of 2004 - and here (http://news.harmony-central.com/Newp/2005/Virus-TI-Ship-Date.html)is states that it's planning to ship in October 2005.
I have not forgotten that at all, as everybody considered it a dreadful delay - finally at least staying below a year (and losing customers for that reason). The Origin has exceeded that dreadful time already significantly, and Arturia still hasn't offered any delivery date!
And when it finally comes it nevertheless will hardly be bugfree, rather still show problems not detected by beta testers. Just have a look around in this forum concerning software. ;-)
And to boot - it took them another year or so after that to get their plug-in integration working, and they're still struggling with it today in some configurations.
And that's the point where I contradict, having used the plugin much faster than within a year. Concerning problems with different platforms, that's something completely unavoidable (problems in part being on the side of those platforms), and Arturia surely is among the last to point its fingers to anyone else here, instead profiting from a look at their own support situation here, where not even their dongle solutions seem to work without causing big trouble. ;-)
My point is: no company is immune to delivery delays.
Yes, and my point stays that Arturia already has its own record of hardware delivery delay, being significantly even beyond the worst Access scenario! And we still have to see how flawless it will work after delivery and should perhaps rather be realistic about that...
As far as your denegration of the Origin without a single scentilla of knowledge of its architecture, I'll just way "wait and see".
The only video of the Origin we have so far is trying to communicate exactly the modular architecture of the synth modules. ;-) It focuses on their feature of being able to use oscillators from one type with filters from another etc. This is still a subtractive synth, just with a lot of modular flexibility, right?
Why wait for MusikMesse to have your account deleted - just stop posting! How hard is that?
Because I will pronounce my opinion crystal clear as long as my deadline for the Origin is running, staying a potential customer exactly as long as I wish.
Afterwards I don't just want to stop posting, but I want my member data to be deleted. Simple as that :-)
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That's an amazing feat of mental gymnastics you just performed - to totally backslide and still try to find a way to pretend that any of your meanderings have merit. Wow that's impressive. Cirque de Soleil must be calling.
:roll:
Where there's software, there will be bugs. Where there is hardware, there will be delays. No company is more or less prone to those truisms. You can pontificate, bloviate, cajole, rant, complain, dissemble, prop up paper tiger arguments all you want. However, none of that meaningless blather will change the two most salient facts: 1) you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to the Origin, and 2) I do know what I'm talking about when it comes to the Origin.
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<humor inside>
Okay boys, that was a nice round.
We could notice the two fighter's different tactics: powerful frontal kick from HoustonH, versus the filthy hook-style from DeFrigge.
</humor inside>
DeFrigge: please never forget it's our very FIRST hardware project... We don't have the full "hardware culture" yet, but the road draws by walking on, and after several years of development we now have a serious technical basis (especially in matter of "things-to-avoid" :wink:).
To stay on the comparison with the clever guys at Access, I would be curious to know how many time they spent and delayed before the first stable release of the Virus.
The upcoming MusikMesse is the last show before the Origin official launch, the Arturia's staff (including me) will be there and pleased to speak with any person willing to know a bit more about this fantastic synth, shall (s)he be "enthusiast" or "opponent". Will YOU be there?
And to answer you question to the moderator: yep, no problem, you may even remain here and share your experience, or even destroy it right after reading this message, it's up to you dude! :P
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I understand both sides of the frustration here. I'm keeping the faith - just, I've staved off severe GAS since I sold some synths, saved and banked my money for the Origin (months ago) - We've all been waiting for an eternity and the dates for whatever reason are slipping now to a point where I don't think Arturia have any idea when it will be delivered other than when it's finished.
My best guess for shipping following Antoine comment about the Musikmesse is we have been promised deliver before NAMM 09!
As always with such a antispated and complex project expectations are high, that said to many false dawns have been promised (I'm sure in good faith) and that as a project manager my arse would have been well fried with every deadline being missed by a county mile. I'm off back down to the studio as I'm between jobs and do what I love doing the most making music - for the time being without an Origin sitting on the shelf that's been reserved for over 6 months.
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The upcoming MusikMesse is the last show before the Origin official launch, P
you mean between musik messe and summer namm? nothing more precise? or is it May (see origin keyboard deliver date thread)? i know you can not gie an exact date and i understand it, but an expected date would be welcome, even if it's changed a little again. thanx :wink:
While it's not in production, the Origin certainly exists
is this statement compatible with what antoine said before (see up) ?
thanx for any more infos guys
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No company is more or less prone to those truisms.
No company is free from those problems. But Arturia is not just one of many, but top in the top group of the really desastrous cases, even topping the big TI delivery delay by far. They are not even able to name a delivery date after sigificantly more than a year after presentation. You already were corrected by someone you pointed at with a big finger (see above in this thread), concerning another crooked and exaggerated comparison, and I have to remind you once more to stay with real dimensions and compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges...
You can pontificate, bloviate, cajole, rant, complain, dissemble, prop up paper tiger arguments all you want. However, none of that meaningless blather will change the two most salient facts:
Yes, I know enough people of the kind becoming offensive very fast when they try to defend a weak position :-)
What is most revealing in this context is your last sentence:
1) you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to the Origin, and 2) I do know what I'm talking about when it comes to the Origin.
These are "the two most salient facts" for what you are doing here? :-)
Let me resume:
- you come here boasting who you are and whom you happened to know and so on...
- you always point at others when someone questions Arturias behaviour for good reasons. Responsibility shifting without end...
- you offer to be helpful youself some weeks ago, instead doing close to *nothing* to give *any* useful input here
- and in the end you return to boasting again about what you know and others don't?
What kind of freak show is that??? I have done a lot of betatesting myself, but I never answered a user outside the beta team in such a pathetic way.
I will not answer to further posts by you.
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While it's not in production, the Origin certainly exists
is this statement compatible with what antoine said before (see up) ?
thanx for any more infos guys
Read the statements carefully and you'll see that they are perfectly compatible. I have a prototype unit for writing part of the Origin manual and some beta testing and a few demos along the way.
(http://www.hhaynes.com/images/Arturia/Origin%20005.JPG)
Antoine is referring to the full production release.
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Let me resume:
- you come here boasting who you are and whom you happened to know and so on...
Read the posts again - I *studied*under* and *worked*for* Bob Mg. My original point was that the "Series 91" theremins didn't ship until 1993, and I was there when it happened. Part of the reason why I was hired in the first place was that Bob was working on theremins while also trying to satisfy demand for the Lintronics MemoryMg upgrades in the US. Even the man who was seminal to the synthesizer industry was prone to some pretty staggering delays, and I was the one that had to deal with the irate customer calls when people had put deposits on their theremin and still had to wait *years* past the promised delivery for their instrument.
"fin" was trying to insinuate that my sum total involvement in the MI business was a dinner party. I'm just keeping the record straight. If you guys had the attention span longer than a ferret on a double espresso, I wouldn't have to throw that back into your face every third reply.
- you always point at others when someone questions Arturias behaviour for good reasons. Responsibility shifting without end...
Shifting responsibility? Are you serious? You seem to have this fixation that Arturia is a special case, and I give you example after example, including tearing down some of your paper tiger arguments that this is *not* a special case - *not* that any other company is responsible. Get a grip.
- you offer to be helpful youself some weeks ago, instead doing close to *nothing* to give *any* useful input here
Seriously dude, who died and made you the King Antagonizer of Origin? I plan to provide some tutorials and demos at some point, but I've got obligations other than satiating your desire to be catered to. Sorry, but in the world that *I* live in, it's business before pleasure. And right now, finishing the manual is business, and the rest is pleasure. Just because I post in this thread doesn't mean that I'll be on your imagined time table.
- and in the end you return to boasting again about what you know and others don't?
It's not boasting, it's the statement of plain fact that all of your ramblings about what the Origin *is* or *isn't* don't even rise to the level of uneducated guessing. Seriously, you *don't* know what you're talking about. That's not me boasting - that's just telling it like it is.
I have done a lot of betatesting myself, but I never answered a user outside the beta team in such a pathetic way.
The way you've been acting like a spoiled 5-year-old child since your first post in this forum, I seriously seriously doubt that you've ever been a beta tester for a hardware synth, or even a commercial plug-in for that matter. I'm happy to be proven wrong, but I doubt it.
I will not answer to further posts by you.
Feel free to stop posting completely until you've actually tried or heard the synth. While you're away from the forum - do some meditation or something else that might help you find some patience. MusikMesse is just around the corner.
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i meant that if the origin is still not in production right now how can it be available between messe and summer namm. i know you have a real unit for beta. sorry my english is not always good :wink: :wink:
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RC - good question I'm a little confused as to how this statement sits with this "the desk top will be available in a few weeks" - a recent quote from Antoine.
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Antoine, I think you should confirm the May date as start of delivery, if true, to end the painful everlasting guessing here in the board.
For me it will be too late but others will appreciate the clarity...
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Yup, clarity please - enough with the cloak and dagger stuff. As a potential customer who's been waiting months , May as a date seems close, so let us know.
It also appears to becoming a poor secret with the launch in London annouced for May.
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I don't understand the impatience over the release date? Just wait until it comes out. Chances are they're not doing it just to drive you away and annoy you - I hate it when companies rush things to get them on the shelf. Imagine the damage they'd be doing to themselves if it was even slightly faulty! Apologies if you are a hardware synthesizer manufacturer yourself, then you of course, know all about it
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Weaponx - some of us have been waiting for a release date for 14 months and expected up until recently that we would get the synth late 2007 or at worst 1st qtr this year so we are getting a little restless (both dates hinted at by Arturia in this forum).
Agreed about bug free, unfortunately no release 1.0 ever is! It also appears that we will not be getting many templates so as far as I'm concerned orgin will be work in progress for months after version 1 and when we finally see one.
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I don't understand the impatience over the release date?
WeaponX,
I have betatested synthesizer hardware as well as software and I know by experience that no beta tester team finds even nearly all bugs in a complex system. You can be sure for *any* device like Origin that only in permanent *use* by many users with different profiles and workflows and platforms you will really stumble on problems not obvious to first betatesting.
It is ok for a company to say: we have not even finished our product to a degree of a stable (within the limits of first betatesting) and fully working (including the complete annonced functionality) release. And it would be good in this case to name a halfway realistic, rough new time frame for release. But it comes over as a really *lame* excuse to the public, to explain heavy delays with the claim of releasing a very mature product, other than others usually do, who *always* have small or more significant first release problems. And then offer a product which probably has the same first release problems as anybody else, and maybe even reduced functionality compared to the announcements.
So I find any use of the word 'impatience' in connection with Arturias heavily oversized delays, bad communication and (if the information spreading here and elsewhere is true) very limited template functionality of the first release *after* all this amount of delay, just plain ridiculous...