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DRUMS => Spark => Spark Technical Issues => Topic started by: bigbuddy3 on December 22, 2013, 05:41:26 am

Title: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: bigbuddy3 on December 22, 2013, 05:41:26 am

I've installed Latest Arturia updates.
In PT 10 Spark loads and will play (When I hit Play In PT ) but display is blank. Spark dpm is 7.3x0
Spark works in PT11 and Logic 9.1.8 and Stand alone
I can choose from 2 Sparks to Open,  One is In a rtu disclosure, this always crashes PT10

Mac Pro  2.8 Quad/OSX 10.8.5/PT 10.3.7.296 /PT 11.0.3



Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: Kevin on December 30, 2013, 08:55:28 am
Hi,
I suspect that you are trying to load the 64 bit AAX version of Spark in PT10.
PT 10.3 is 32 bit but for some reason can see and load (but not properly) 64 bit AAX plugin.
That's why you have 2 choice in the menu (one for the 64 bit AAX, one for the 32 bit RTAS).
Did you try the second one?
Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: bigbuddy3 on December 30, 2013, 07:36:12 pm
Yes I tried both. 
One CRASHES PT ( 64 bit-), the other (32 bit) doesn't display in the plug in window yet will play a seq when I hit play in PT

Thanks
Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: verdini on December 30, 2013, 10:48:58 pm
Same here!
I can not see in the pulldown menu which of the two is 32 or 64 bit
The upper one has only the center screen (sequencer)
The lower has a blank window.
Both make PT10 crash.
Can anyone help?
Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: Kevin on December 31, 2013, 09:08:10 am
Hi,
what version of Spark are you running?
Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: bigbuddy3 on December 31, 2013, 08:38:59 pm
Spark dpm plug  is 7.3x0
Standalone 1.7

Thx
Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: Kevin on January 01, 2014, 10:54:04 am
If you are willing to try it, you can download and install the 1.7.2 beta (http://www.arturia.com/evolution/smf/index.php?topic=14020.0).
This one should not crash anymore.
Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: bigbuddy3 on January 12, 2014, 06:26:41 am
Installed the Beta version,  Still Blank screen In  PT10
see attachment

Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: ben arturia on January 13, 2014, 10:16:32 am
I think you should uninstall Spark and make a clean install.
Please delete those files :
 - /Applications/Arturia/spark.app
/Library/Arturia/Spark/
WARNING In this folder you have your user library. If you have user preset make backup of the folder :
/Library/Arturia/Spark/Spark Library/User

- /Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/VST/Spark.vst
- /Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/Components/Spark.component
- /Library/Application Support/Avid/Audio/Plug-Ins/spark.aaxplugin
- /Library/Application Support/Digidesign/Plug-Ins/spark.dpm

Then make a clean reinstall

Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: bigbuddy3 on January 14, 2014, 06:08:59 am
 :'( Nope .. I followed your suggestion,  still Blank in PT 10.
 I tried opening up both that show up. One is a blank screen the other comes up but not functional.

THX
Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: ben arturia on January 14, 2014, 08:54:59 am
What version did you install ?
Could you tell me what is the version of this files (right click on it "get info") :
- /Library/Application Support/Digidesign/Plug-Ins/spark.dpm
Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: bigbuddy3 on January 17, 2014, 07:18:54 am
1.72  in Digi plug folder

THx
Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: ben arturia on January 17, 2014, 09:49:02 am
are you running PT 10.3.8 ?
Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: bigbuddy3 on January 17, 2014, 04:34:04 pm
Mac Pro  2.8 Quad/OSX 10.8.5/PT 10.3.7.296 /PT 11.0.3/Logic 10.06
 
Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: rindigo on April 04, 2014, 11:13:35 pm
Hello i same this problem too
In pt 10hd
i work flawless with v-collection
i remove dpm from plugin folder and all synth work very good with aax

only spark have trouble
aax have empty window
if i insert rtu(dpm) i see spark but its no sound and etc

maybe we make spark like other your product possible work wax 32 bit
this


Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: rindigo on April 24, 2014, 09:19:10 pm
Hello

i watch blank screen in dpm
Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: stuey on May 01, 2014, 08:07:07 pm
HI Kevin

I have just updated to Spark 1.7.2 and it's virtually unusable in PT10. I can run a 32 channel + mix with plug ins and inserts, yet cannot run a 4 track mix with Spark on an instrument channel. I'm getting severe audio drop outs and my CPU level is jumping all over the place, the second I pull the plug in from the insert, it's fine.

I have always used the Spark plug in from the Spark rtu menu in PT, there is also a spark plug in, in the Arturia folder with all the other instrument plug ins. This gives you the blank plug in window error.

I have removed any sign of Spark aax plug ins and only have the .dpm plug ins being used.

We know that PT has never really liked software instruments but is there a resolve that doesn't involve a paid upgrade

Thanks, Stuart



Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: stuey on May 02, 2014, 03:27:49 pm
I have always set up my PT CPU's to use all of them -1, keeping that 1 CPU for the System. Host CPU usage at 99%. I think also somewhere on here Kevin M also recommends that.Now I think that with machine with 8 or more cores, it's worth lowering that further to give more CPU to the machine. In my experience, lowering from 15 to 8 and now down to 7 has really made a difference. As far as the blank screen plug in, i have no idea, I have always used the rtu option, which has always worked.

Quite why you actually *have* the option to choose a different plug in, is beyond me. Surely this could be omitted when installing Spark?

Thanks, Stuart
Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: Kevin on May 05, 2014, 10:11:56 am
Hi Stuey,
have you considered using Spark 2?
It is only available in AAX but it works with PT 10.3.8.
Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: stuey on May 05, 2014, 10:56:21 am
Spark 2 is actually worse. I haven't installed Spark 2 on my work machine (Cannot risk the potential issues )but installed a copy on my laptop (i5, 8 GB RAM, Pro Tools 10.3.7).
I actually send a tech case in (165899) as once spark was entered onto an instrument channel it just froze Pro Tools.

Are you saying that Spark 2 isn't qualified for 10.3.7?

From my below tests on my main audio machine, lowering the CPU's certainly helped the spikes but it really slows Pro Tools. The minute I remove the Spark plug in, I am able to run lots more channels. From another thread I posted, would you say the native aax support in Pro Tools 11 at 64 bit will go to improving VI support in Pro Tools?

Thanks, Stuart 
Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: Kevin on May 05, 2014, 11:12:01 am
Spark 2 is actually worse. I haven't installed Spark 2 on my work machine (Cannot risk the potential issues )but installed a copy on my laptop (i5, 8 GB RAM, Pro Tools 10.3.7).
I actually send a tech case in (165899) as once spark was entered onto an instrument channel it just froze Pro Tools.

I will have a look at this.

Quote
Are you saying that Spark 2 isn't qualified for 10.3.7?

Spark 2 is tested and supported on 10.3.8.
I am not sure 10.3.7 is supporting AAX plugin.

Quote

From my below tests on my main audio machine, lowering the CPU's certainly helped the spikes but it really slows Pro Tools. The minute I remove the Spark plug in, I am able to run lots more channels. From another thread I posted, would you say the native aax support in Pro Tools 11 at 64 bit will go to improving VI support in Pro Tools?

Thanks, Stuart

AAX is definitely more robust and better than RTAS so I would say yes :)
Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: stuey on May 05, 2014, 11:23:25 am
Quote

Spark 2 is tested and supported on 10.3.8.
I am not sure 10.3.7 is supporting AAX plugin.



It should do, not natively at 64bit. Pro Tools 11 will do that, but it should support AAX as the .7 release does. Certainly both .7 and .8 runs Spark 1.7.2 ok.

Quote
AAX is definitely more robust and better than RTAS so I would say yes

Hmm :) You see since version 1.x I've heard that it will better in the next version of the plug in. It's fine for me to upgrade Spark as I've paid for the upgrades. PT 11 is a 200 upgrade that might see me in the same position as I am now. I don't need Pro Tools 11 at all for any other reason. My sole upgrade path would be to support AAX for the arturia set of plugs. Are you willing to say for certain that this will cure the poor performance of the RTAS suite of Arturia plug ins?

If I upgrade and i'm in the same position, who foots the Pro Tools cost?

Stuart 

Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: Kevin on May 05, 2014, 11:42:46 am
As you said PT is very temperamental with VI and Spark is a very big/complicated one.

If 10.3.7 support AAX 32 bit it should work with Spark 2 but I'll advise you to update to 10.3.8 (if it's free).

It's true that we have less problem with AAX than with RTAS but I won't tell you to buy the upgrade to PT11 if you do not need it.
Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: stuey on May 05, 2014, 05:54:33 pm
As you said PT is very temperamental with VI and Spark is a very big/complicated one.


That said, my other VI's work very well. Spark seems to be the only one that spikes the CPU in that way. Even other drum machines and things like Kontact player work fine, they are huge!

Stu
Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: Demozic on May 17, 2014, 11:55:08 am
Hi

I also have troubles with V1.7.2 and Pro Tools 10.
I'm running both PT10.3.8 and 11.1.2 with OSX.8.5

Quote from:  Kevin
AAX is definitely more robust and better than RTAS so I would say yes
Maybe, but there is compatibilty issues when you swap between PT10 and PT11 (see below).

Quote from: rindigo
i work flawless with v-collection
i remove dpm from plugin folder and all synth work very good with aax

only spark have trouble
aax have empty window
if i insert rtu(dpm) i see spark but its no sound and etc
Exactly the same here.

EDIT : except that for me, the RTAS (= .dpm) version of Spark works.
But I used to experience the same issue
(I get it sorted by removing plug-ins from the plug ins folder, but don't remind the correct process)

But want to add :

And the issue I have is :
1/ Spark (rtu) instances created with PT10 (RTAS) won't open in PT11 (plugin not recognized, even with Spark AAX installed)
2/ Spark instances created with PT11 won't open in PT10 (not recognized plugin, even with Spark RTAS installed)

This is really a big issue. Most work done with PT10 must be redone with PT11. I get it sorted by using load/save Projects feature but it is real pain.

@ stuey
About CPU Spikes, I cannot actually tell if it is better between PT10 and PT11 as I can hardly exchange sessions between both (must save projects and change the instance). But due to the issue above, I wouldn't recommand to ugrade to PT11 just for Spark compatibilty (especially if you created tons of sessions with Spark inside).

I agree with Kevin. Try updating PT to 10.3.8 (I didn't try 10.3.9). I notice better performances with 10.3.8 (not that much and not especially with Spark but, globally better). Even if PT11 run smoother.

Also I use 4 or 6 cores ( out of 8 ) @85%. If you processor is a core i7 (which support hyperthreading), I would set CPU by pairs (2, 4, 6 or 8 cores) and prevent from using odd values (1, 3, 5, 7). PT is seeing virtual cores (=threads) with such CPUs ( actual nb of cores is 4 out of 8 ).

@Kevin
- Why not AAX version support both AAX32 & 64 bits like other Arturia Plug-ins ?
-> If Spark AAX is only a 64bits plug-in, PT10 shouldn't see it.
-> The pb is, in fact, Spark RTAS and Spark AAX are like 2 different plugins : "Arturia/Spark" (as AAX) " and "Arturia rtu/Spark" as RTAS.

- There is also a lot of mess regarding folder structure. Arturia is the one of the 2 lonely plug-ins editors (with Ohmforce) that is putting some application folder directly inside :
[System HDD]/Library/

instead of :
[System HDD]/Library/Application Support/
or
[User]/Library/Application Support/

I have different Arturia folders inside
[System HDD]/Library/Arturia/ contains "/Spark", "/Analog Lab" and "/Oberheim SEM V" folders
[System HDD]/Library/Application Support/Arturia/ contains only "/Jupiter-8V2"

I wonder why all those files are spread accross the folder structure like this, and if it is not a source of issue.

Computer :
MacMini Core i7 (2012) 4 cores / 8 threads
OS : Mac OSX.8.5
PT10.3.8 / PT11.1.2
Spark 1.7.2 + VCollection 2.5.x + Analog lab 1.1

EDIT : correction of unwanted smilies
Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: stuey on May 17, 2014, 02:56:54 pm
Hi, sorry lots of quoting here :)

Quote
Exactly the same here.

EDIT : except that for me, the RTAS (= .dpm) version of Spark works.

Yes, same here. There's essentially a bug in the software, Kevin noted this down on another thread I can't find right now. Basically it installs both RTAS and AAX. The rtu is purely RTAS and not AAX. With newer versions of Spark, it installs the rtu but is not needed. PT 10 will open the AAX version but won't work in true 64 bit as AAX is intended to. The AAX can be found under the normal spark menu (with the V collection etc)

PS. I would generally deactivate the Spark plug in when saving, that is, only if I intend to open a session elsewhere where they might have PT11.

Quote
@ stuey
About CPU Spikes, I cannot actually tell if it is better between PT10 and PT11 as I can hardly exchange sessions between both (must save projects and change the instance). But due to the issue above, I wouldn't recommand to ugrade to PT11 just for Spark compatibilty (especially if you created tons of sessions with Spark inside).

I agree with Kevin. Try updating PT to 10.3.8 (I didn't try 10.3.9). I notice better performances with 10.3.8 (not that much and not especially with Spark but, globally better). Even if PT11 run smoother.

Thanks Demozic.

I've had the same issues since version Spark 1.5, and we know that PT isn't too hot with VI's, but i've done extensive testing with spark. I started using it in PT 9 and it has always worked better when lowering the amount of cores available to PT's. That's across all versions of Pro Tools and Spark. When using Spark with the optimum pro tools set up (All CPU's -1 set to 99%) It just freezes and dies. All other Pro Tools VI's and other plug ins work very well like this. Admittedly I am only using UAD 2 plugs via UAD Duo, but still, CPU is generally very good without the introduction of Spark. Once Spark is introduced to a session, it's then I have to start moving things around, changing delay compensation changing H/W buffer and Host processors. This is consistent from version 1.5 up to version 1.7.2



I'm on 10.3.7 on my laptop and 10.3.8. on my main machine. Spark 2 may have been tested on 10.3.8 but I can't image that it was ever tested on 10.3.9 as that wasn't released when they must have been tested Spark 2.

So that said, updating to 10.3.9 is a very minor fix and I don't see that changing a single thing.

Quote
Also I use 4 or 6 cores ( out of 8 ) @85%. If you processor is a core i7 (which support hyperthreading), I would set CPU by pairs (2, 4, 6 or 8 cores) and prevent from using odd values (1, 3, 5, 7). PT is seeing virtual cores (=threads) with such CPUs ( actual nb of cores is 4 out of 8 ).

I dont; tend to do a great deal on my i5 laptop 2 Core 2.4Ghz. I have 4 CPU's in PT's but don't tend to bother changing around as i'm never doing that much heavy lifting on the laptop.

On my main machine I do, as mentioned above I tend to use 15 out of 16 CPU's at 99%. Using that same method, halving the amount, minus 1 (7 cores at 99%) seems to work well. I have tried other ways, like using pairs. So I started at 14, then 12, 10 etc. I didn't see that much difference until I got to about 10, so stuck with my original idea of using half the cores.

Hope that made sense :)

Stu
Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: Demozic on May 17, 2014, 09:40:15 pm
Quote
PT 11 will open the AAX version but won't work in true 64 bit as AAX is intended to. The AAX can be found under the normal spark menu (with the V collection etc)
Spark AAX works with PT11. The issue is that it can't manage to open session created with PT10.
Other old session with RTAS plugs open fine in PT11 as far as the equivalent AAX plug is there (including Arturia V Collection).

But it is not the case with Spark. So I wanted to warn you...

Quote
So that said, updating to 10.3.9 is a very minor fix and I don't see that changing a single thing.
I agree. I don't think 10.3.9 would change anything. I thought you were working with 10.3.7. I saw some good bugfixes with 10.3.8 (over 10.3.6) but skipped 10.3.7 and would certainly skip 10.3.9 also.

Quote
Hope that made sense
Yes it does.
To be honest using pairs of core is more an "idea" than a true scientific rule.

Modern CPUs are using hyperthreading -> meaning a 8 core (physically) CPU is shown as a 16 core (virtual) by OS and applications. But I actually don't know which core is virtual and which one is a real one (and their correct order) inside PT :

Hypothesis 1/
( 1 physical core + 1 virtual core ) + ( 1 physical core + 1 virtual core ) + ( 1 physical core + 1 virtual core )  etc..
-> using pairs of core would make sense because using 1 or 2 following cores would still use 1 entire physical core
or
Hypothesis 2/
8 first cores are physical) then 8 last cores are virtual
-> then using half cores makes more sense (especially if PT10 doesn't deal well with hyperthreading (and I am pretty sure it doesn't))

On the other hand, the (ALL - 1) core was ruled when we had multi-CPU or multi-core without hyperthreading (G5, Core2duo, Core2quad, older Xeon) to let 1 free core for the OS.

But in my experience (I had different CPU bi-G4, bi-G5, Core2duo, Core i7), it really depends on the generation of CPU, no absolute rule. Must perform some test and choose the 2 best settings : one with a low buffer setting (<128 samples, for tracking/composing), and another one with comfortable buffer setting (512 samples or more, for mixing).
Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: stuey on May 17, 2014, 11:44:11 pm
Quote
Spark AAX works with PT11. The issue is that it can't manage to open session created with PT10.
Other old session with RTAS plugs open fine in PT11 as far as the equivalent AAX plug is there (including Arturia V Collection).

But it is not the case with Spark. So I wanted to warn you...


Maybe the problem is that it's a completely different plug in, whereas it's a patch for the other arturia plugs.

I also believe that there's an install error in the install package of spark which doesn't remove the RTAS plug in. So if you upgrade to version 2 from 1.7.2 or below, it would still remain the . Brand new installs would't have the legacy plug in, in place.

The install paths of system prefs and presets are a real mess. I've had to dig around all over the place to find what i needed to have two systems look and feel the same.

 

Thanks for the info
Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: Kevin on May 19, 2014, 10:43:05 am
Hi guys,
thanks for your report about PT10/11 compatibility.
I really do not know why sessions created with PT10 are not working with PT11.
I have to investigate this. I will try to find some time in the upcoming days.

Kevin
Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: Demozic on May 19, 2014, 12:15:37 pm
Hi Kevin,

Thanks about investigating on this one.
Just for information, I submitted a support ticket about this (Case 167466, in French).
Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: stuey on May 19, 2014, 12:19:12 pm
HI Kevin

No problem...

Could it be where Pro Tools looks for plug ins and plug in settings when opening a session?

/Library/Application Support/Avid/Audio/Plug-Ins/
/Library/Application Support/Digidesign/Plug-Ins

For example, open a session whilst holding shift (All plug ins deactivated). Does it open and show a deactivated plug in?

Thanks, Stu
Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: Demozic on May 19, 2014, 02:42:04 pm
Quote
Could it be where Pro Tools looks for plug ins and plug in settings when opening a session?

/Library/Application Support/Avid/Audio/Plug-Ins/
/Library/Application Support/Digidesign/Plug-Ins
PT10 looks into both plug-ins folders.

If the plug-in manufacturer did his job properly :
- If both RTAS (inside /Library/Application Support/Digidesign/Plug-Ins folder) AND AAX (inside/Library/Application Support/Digidesign/Plug-Ins  folder) versions are installed
-> only 1 plug-in should show up in PT10's plugin list :
- either AAX version (if AAX is 32 bits-compatible)
 or
- RTAS version (if AAX is not 32 bits compatible) but not both.

The simple fact that  2 spark plug-in are visible in the plugin list means PT10 consider them as 2 different products.

I am pretty sure PT (whatever version) looks at both manufacturer name AND plug-in name to consider that plug-ins are the same product or a different one. If a manufacturer decide to change its plug-in name from version to version, it totally breaks old session compatibility down. The same appears if the manufacturer decide to change its manufacturer name.

Spark (RTAS) reports "Arturia rtu" as manufacturer name
while Spark (AAX) reports "Arturia" as manufacturer name

So PT considers those 2 plug-ins as separate products.

And even if I let both AAX and RTAS version in their respective folder, PT10 shows only one plugin. Only Spark is doubled.

I have a lot of sessions create with PT7/8/9/10 (saved as RTAS) and they correctly open with PT11 as far as the AAX plugin name correctly match the RTAS plugin name. Unfortunately, most manufacturers are changing names when they upgrade their plug-in (ie : v1 to v2), which makes sense if their GUI and parameters structure completely change. But here, it is the exactly same plug-in version (v1.7.x).

Quote
For example, open a session whilst holding shift (All plug ins deactivated). Does it open and show a deactivated plug in?
No need to hold shift while opening PT.

If the plug-in doesn't exist or isn't installed, the session still opens correctly but the "non-installed" plug-ins are deactivated (italic). And normally all data informations about this plug-ins (setting, automation) are preserved.

So when I open a "PT10+Spark-saved" session inside PT11, the session open correctly but Spark is deactivated and impossible to reactivate (a warning message like "the plug-in doesn't exist" appears). But I can open a new Spark instance with the AAX version.
Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: stuey on May 19, 2014, 03:24:00 pm
Quote
The simple fact that  2 spark plug-in are visible in the plugin list means PT10 consider them as 2 different products.


Yes, I sent some screen grabs over to Kevin a while back explaining this, showing the 'rtu' and the conventional 'Arturia' menus.

Quote
No need to hold shift while opening PT.

If the plug-in doesn't exist or isn't installed, the session still opens correctly but the "non-installed" plug-ins are deactivated (italic). And normally all data informations about this plug-ins (setting, automation) are preserved.

Indeed, but it's a nice way to diagnose problem plug ins, either graphical problems or otherwise.

Quote
And even if I let both AAX and RTAS version in their respective folder, PT10 shows only one plugin. Only Spark is doubled.

What versions are both plug ins? Did you upgrade to version 2, or do a clean install of version 2. I haven't tried this myself, but I'm sure if you delete the other 1.7.x version from /Library/Application Support/Digidesign/Plug-Ins. Then install a clean version 2, you should find that you only have 1 plug in. As I think Kevin has mentioned from another thread, the installer doesn't delete any legacy versions, hence upgrading to the AAX version (Spark2) the old rtu RTAS are still present in /Library/Application Support/Digidesign/Plug-Ins as well as the newly installed AAX that resides /Library/Application Support/Avid/Audio/Plug-Ins/

After putting my Spark AAX plug in, into /Library/Application Support/Avid/Audio/Plug-Ins (Unused) I now only have the correct one to choose from. I'm still using 10.3.9 (I upgraded)and not 11 but I'm sure it's just an installer error.

Stu


Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: Demozic on May 19, 2014, 07:17:17 pm
Quote
And even if I let both AAX and RTAS version in their respective folder, PT10 shows only one plugin. Only Spark is doubled.
My mistake if it is not clear. I was talking in a general way => I should've written :
"Usually, with all other manufacturer plugin that providing both RTAS and AAX 64bits plug-ins (but not AAX32 bits compatible), PT10 only shows one plugin. No need to remove AAX from the AAX plug-in folder".

What versions are both plug ins? Did you upgrade to version 2, or do a clean install of version 2. I haven't tried this myself, but I'm sure if you delete the other 1.7.x version from /Library/Application Support/Digidesign/Plug-Ins. Then install a clean version 2, you should find that you only have 1 plug in. As I think Kevin has mentioned from another thread, the installer doesn't delete any legacy versions, hence upgrading to the AAX version (Spark2) the old rtu RTAS are still present in /Library/Application Support/Digidesign/Plug-Ins as well as the newly installed AAX that resides /Library/Application Support/Avid/Audio/Plug-Ins/
I am using Spark v1.7.2. I didn't install Spark 2 yet. To me Spark 2 is a new product and is also AAX only.
I don't want to remove RTAS as I want to open old session (made with PT9 and PT10) and be sure they will open in PT11.

But anyway, I will save my settings using Spark library and open it back in PT11 using a new Spark instance.
I don't have any automations on those tracks so I won't loose datas.

The other option I have is to use AU version inside VEP (that certainly what I will do in the future instead of using AAX).

I will try Spark2 later but not with my main OS.
Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: stuey on May 19, 2014, 07:28:52 pm
Quote
I will try Spark2 later but not with my main OS.

Brave :)

I've not dared yet, have it on my laptop mind. If all the things are going to be ironed out, Spark 2 should be ok. I do still think that some hardware computability is lacking but hopefully with the next update things should be getting better. I've given some suggestions to Kevin and we'll wait and see what happens

Stu 
Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: stuey on May 21, 2014, 04:50:14 pm
to add...

Mainly the problem here is the graphical interface of the Arturia plugs. Test with the window open and then closed. Spark suffers from massive audio drop outs, as does the Oberheim and the Mg modular.
Stu
Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: Demozic on May 23, 2014, 05:50:48 pm
Just an update on my experience :

After support team contacted me, I made a try on Spark2.

First, I was wrong to consider it as a different product. It actually replaces spark 1 (plugin name remains "Spark").

The good news is Spark 2 is compatible with both PT10 and PT11 :
=> it correctly open previous insances made with AAX version (meaning made with PT11 as Spark 1.7.x wasn't PT10 compatible).

BUT :
=> it still not open directly session created with Spark RTAS (.dpm)

Apart from all of this, I changed my mind and I am really enthusiast with Spark2 update :
I like the new GUI and new features, even if I discovered few bugs.
The new GUI is more "epured" (no more animation) and the old VDM/EDM GUI is still there and compatible with the 1st Spark Controller.
So I hope it would also help having better stability and performances.

But, first, I need to "convert" all my library. I don't have that many, but I must open all my old session to be sure. And to do this, I had to get back to v1.7.2.

So, personally, and for people who have tons of Spark RTAS sessions, I don't recommend to update to Spark2 straight away (v1.7.2 and v2 can coexist but are sharing many files => so v1.7.2 often crashes, especially when attempting to open library browser).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
BEFORE updating to Spark2 :

1/ make a backup copy of your library (for safety)
(NB : by defaut located in [System HD]/Library/Arturia/Spark/Spark Library/)

2/ (option) I advice to open each PT session that uses Spark RTAS with PT10 ; and add your spark project name in each instrument track's comment (to remind later when you will load Spark2 AAX)

3/ (really important) export each of your spark project, 1 by 1, as ".spk" (it is a unique embedded file containing all needed files). Later, you will import them into Spark2.
follow this link (http://www.arturia.com/evolution/kb/?View=entry&EntryID=193) (even for Spark CDM)
NB : You can do that with PT10, or with Spark Standalone

4/ (option) Make a copy of Spark.dpm somewhere*
( Just in case you'll need it to re-open an older RTAS session later)
NB : loading dpm version won't work well but could help in some situations

5/ Then you're ready to update to Spark2 (clean update recommended)

(* typically : " /Library/Application Support/Digidesign/Plug-Ins (Unused) " )
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I hope it would help PT users...
Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: Kevin on May 26, 2014, 09:06:13 am
Hi Demozic,
thanks for this feedback.
Really appreciating all the time you must have passed to achieve to this results.

I think the incompatibility is between the RTAS and the AAX version of Spark and probably the reason is because of the wrong manufacturer name ('rtu') of the RTAS version.

One thing I do not understand in your post is why you say it is needed to export your user project and import them back later?
Can you give me some details?

Kevin
Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: stuey on May 26, 2014, 12:24:12 pm
I think this is specifically talking about Pro Tools plug in setting files.


to add...

Mainly the problem here is the graphical interface of the Arturia plugs. Test with the window open and then closed. Spark suffers from massive audio drop outs, as does the Oberheim and the Mg modular.
Stu

Whereas when these plug in windows are closed, plug in behaves normally.
Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: stuey on May 26, 2014, 12:27:54 pm
I think the incompatibility is between the RTAS and the AAX version of Spark and probably the reason is because of the wrong manufacturer name ('rtu') of the RTAS version.
Kevin


I imagine a typo then?  A'rtu'ria. Just out of curiosity. If that is the case, would it have just sat in the normal arturia menu, given that Pro Tools assigns the manufacturer by it's plug in metadata

Stuart 
Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: Kevin on May 26, 2014, 12:31:33 pm
I imagine a typo then?
Yep  :-[.
Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: stuey on May 26, 2014, 12:37:44 pm
I imagine a typo then?
Yep  :-[.


It happens Kevin :) A happy accident however. Gives separation with the other plug in. Although I removed my AAX so i always go to the correct plug in. :)
Stuart
Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: Demozic on May 26, 2014, 06:22:49 pm
Quote
One thing I do not understand in your post is why you say it is needed to export your user project and import them back later?
Can you give me some details?
1/ First to prevent from having compatibility issue between Spark v1.7 (or less) version and future Spark2 install.

2/ As Spark2 isn't RTAS compatible, once Spark2 is installed, it won't directly open back PT sessions created with Spark RTAS (except using the old v1.7.2 dpm in PT10, but with lots of issues). The PT session will open but (old) Spark instances will be deactivated* (not recognized due to this manufacturer name issue). Then opening a new Spark2 instance and reimport user project (if not done with standalone) should work.

(*with either PT10 or PT11)

NB : the process is the same if users want to open a old PT10 session into PT11 with Spark1.7.2 AAX.

3/ Also, I experienced lots of crashes with some (sort of) corrupted Spark project (saved with previous v1.7, or v1.6). It is certainly due to a mess with my Spark Library folder. So, normally .spk should skipped those issues (rather than directly open an old library).

In the future, I won't move my Spark Library anymore (even if I hate having samples on my System drive). I will simply make a safety backup in my Sample HDD but will use the default Spark Library path.

4/ It is also an advice from David (from your Arturia support team) who sent me the export library link.

I hope it is clearer.
Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: Kevin on May 27, 2014, 08:55:09 am
Ok I understand.
I was asking that because Spark 2 is compatible with Spark 1.7 projects.
Title: Re: Spark Issue PT10 Mac
Post by: Demozic on May 27, 2014, 09:45:26 am
Quote
I was asking that because Spark 2 is compatible with Spark 1.7 projects.
Yes, you're right. But I think this method is safer.

Also, I saw some sort of temp files in raw Spark project files that aren't exported with the .spk  (certainly to convert sample rate of audio files to the sample rate of the session)
=> .spk seems cleaner => no special cases, so certainly less subject to bug or crash when importing to Spark2 (or any Spark version).