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VCollection 4 / Legacy versions => Modular V => Modular V Technical Issues => Topic started by: Elhardt on September 04, 2006, 03:15:48 am

Title: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: Elhardt on September 04, 2006, 03:15:48 am
I've been hard at work with MMV2 almost daily for the last 6 weeks (and offline as a result) and that means the number of bugs has grown many fold.  It's no longer practical to keep coming to this list and mention one at a time, so I've combined all my old bug findings with the new ones into one list.  It's time to get Arturia off their asses and fix MMV2.  Three and a half years is too long for this crap to remain in the disasterous state it's in.  Anybody who cares about this product and has found bugs themselves should read this, and if those bugs aren't mentioned here, post them to this list, I'll gather them up in the near future, combine them with these and send them off to Arturia to do something about.  I just can't take this crappy software anymore.

The following list is about bugs that are totally within MMV2, not so much about problems interfacing with somebody's particular computer or sound card, as those aren't experienced by all users.  I've also included some comments about poor design issues or other problems that may not be bugs, but should be documented to show problematic or limited MMV2 behavior that shouldn't have been put there in the first place.  Bugs specific to certain modules are placed under that module name.  General MMV bugs follow after those under "General MMV2 Synth Bugs" heading.




Oscillators
-----------

(1) An osc has a total of 4 exponential modulation inputs, two on the osc and two on the osc controller.  Connecting an audio rate osc or noise source into any one of those causes 3 of them to stop working.  This is one of the most major module bugs in MMV.

(2) The sinewave can't hard/soft sync.

(3) Can't hard/soft sync more than one osc to the same source osc.  Trying to do so keeps one osc sort of sync'd and the other not sync'd, with both making strange clicking sounds depending on their frequency settings.

(4) The second PWM nut improperly displays the setting of the first PWM nut when turned, so it can never be set numerically accurate.

(5) Saving a patch with an osc bank set to LFO mode may not get you the same sound when loaded back into the synth.  In my case a polyphonic patch plays only intermittent monophonic notes.  I have a set of patches that only work correctly after I manually cycle through the K1,K2,K3,K4,No setting back to the LFO setting after I load them.

(Poor Design Issues).  The pulse width knob also changes the triangle and sawtooth waves into other waveforms.  Unfortunately Arturia put the sawtooth wave at the leftmost position, and the triangle and square waves at the rightmost position.  So you can't get sawtooth (at the proper pitch) and triangle and square waves at the same time from an osc bank.  Mixing waveforms together on an osc is common, and when standard waveforms like sawtooth and triangle change into other waveforms as the pulsewidth is changed, it's annoying and requires bringing in another osc bank and syncing it to the first, using more oscs to acheive what should be done with just one.  Those other waveforms aren't even very useful.  Turning the pulsewidth knob gives you a hardsync'd sawtooth waveform, something that can already be done by simply syncing one osc to another.



Envelopes
---------

(1) The envelopes are shaped wrong.  Instead of a mild curve, they like a quarter of a circle with an additional flat part of about the same length that causes a delay or what seems like the envelope getting stuck before moving on to the decay stage.  This causes all kinds of problems in getting certain sounds where a soft attack is needed on a percussive type envelope, or when using it to do large osc sweeps, or when using it to control the amount of modulation, and so on.  And since the other stages are shaped the same way, release times that should have ended instead extend far beyond what they should causing more voices of polyphony to be used up causing MMV to make awful sounds when running out of processing power.  Synth envelope stages aren't shaped like circles.  It's typical on a Mg to control audio with an exponential VCA which somewhat counteracts the mild logrithmic curve of Mg env attacks making them closer to linear, which means Arturia has created the most un-Mg-like envelopes possible.  Page 111 in the 2.0 manual shows what an envelope plot should look like.  MMV doesn't behave anything like that.

(2) Envelope times are actually 7 times longer than displayed.  Set an attack time of 100 ms and you actually get 700 ms for example.  (Maybe I just don't understand the logic behind this because I'm not French, I don't know.)

(3) MMV envelopes are completely hosed when used with a sustain/hold pedal.  The VCA2 envelope seems to be the only one that works correctly.  Most of the time the VCA1 envelope stops triggering after all voices have been used up and only starts working again after the sustain pedal has been released.  The general purpose envelopes are flakey, appearing to work in one patch, but not in others.

(4) VCA envelopes can't be triggered from the envelope follower module since the envelope follower trigger doesn't work unless the VCA envelope is already excuting its envelope.  Chicken/egg situation.  So that trigger menu option is bogus.  Also bogus since the envelope trigger doesn't work anyway, see Envelope Follower section.

(5) The soft clipping only works intermittently and randomly when playing polyphonically.  Many notes and chords played come through with no soft clipping.  Soft clipping is acting like a monophonic function not useable in polyphonic patches.

(6) Can't sync env to an osc if the osc pulse width knob is in the zero position.  The position of that knob should have nothing to do with syncing an env.

(7) The mod in nut on VCA2 gives a display in ms.  Fortunately the numbers aren't actually given in ms which is meaningless for a mod input, it's just an improper ms tacked on after the number.

(Poor Design Issues) Attack and decay times can go to 38415 ms (multiplied by seven remember), that's 4.48 minutes, far more than anybody needs and beyond the 10 seconds of the original Mg.  But rather than keep things simple Arturia made the release times go to 70000 ms (x7) for 8.17 minutes.  Because of this lack of logic and the exponential workings of the knobs, no longer can release times be set to match decay times fast and easily by just putting them at the same knob positions, instead the popup numeric displays keep needing to be looked at, aggravated even more by the fact they often display settings for the wrong knob.  There's a right way and a wrong way to do things, so why choose the wrong way?  Seems to be the way companies do things these days.


LFO's
-----

(Warnings) LFO modulation and pwm inputs don't work correctly in polyphonic patches.  I have confirmed that the LFO modules are monophonic accept for the env delay and fade portion.  Thanks for telling us Arturia.  Since this seems intentional, it can't really be called a bug other than there is no way to know about this until a patch doesn't work correctly.  Think you can pop an osc bank into LFO mode and use that instead?  Nope, that turns monophonic too.  You need to use the osc bank [NO] option for keyboard tracking to get polyphonic LFO usage.  But that causes all 3 oscs to consume processing power even if only one is used if the manual is to be believed.  And it seems that the sinewave oscillators reset on keypresses (gee, why don't they reset when hardsync'd ?) most of the time rather than run freely in that mode, yet not always, depending on polyphony used.  There is no way to guarantee reliable polyphonic LFO usage in MMV.

(Poor Design Issues) If the PWM knob is set to the zero position where you would normally keep it, then 3 out of the 5 LFO waveforms don't output what the panel graphics indicate.  That knob needs to set to the rightmost position for normal operation.  Why does Arturia do backwards stuff like this?



Filters
-------

(1) Lowpass filter module is unreliable as a sinewave sound source since it can't seem to stay in tune, can all of a sudden change several semitones in pitch, and/or change to a different pitch when switched between monophonic and polyphonic modes.  MMV is a digital synth, not real analog, and shouldn't be doing this.

(2) On the multimode bandpass filter (if I remember correctly), depending on the patch and the phases of the moon, turning the resonance knob to zero can cause MMV to stop producing sound.  Probably do to floating point numbers going out of bounds and trapping out.



Formant Filter
--------------

(1) Knob settings don't get saved with the patch.  Unless a person wants to write down knob settings and manually dial them in anytime a patch is loaded, then this sophisticated module is uselss for anything beyond the 5 built in vowel sounds.  This needs to be fixed!



Sample & Hold
-------------

(1) S/H module only works intermittently and randomly when used in a polyphonic patch.  It doesn't even work properly with a monophonic input running through it such as a modwheel voltage in a polyphonic patch.  It just appears totally absent when some notes are played.  I confirmed this is a monophonic module and thus will not function properly in a polyphonic patch.  This is totally screwed.  Arturia seems to keep slipping monophonic functions into the MMV polyphonic section without telling the customer who thinks he has bought a polyphonic synth and then has to deal with patches screwing up because of it.  This module needs to be polyphonic and fixed.



Envelope Followers
------------------

(1) The trigger function doesn't work with the exception of one rare time when running external audio through it and only when a VCA envelope was in execution.  I have since tried several more times to get it to work from external audio and it won't, and I have never gotten it to work when running signals from within the synth through it.  This needs to be fixed!



Keyboard Follow Section
-------------------------

(1) The knobs have missing gabs in range that can't be gotten to even with the mouse/right button fine adjustment.  For instance, settings jump from 0.79 to 1.0 to 1.2 etc, with nothing inbetween.  What about 0.80 to 0.99 for for example?  In other words, you can't have keyboard tracking of 80% to 99%, 101% to 119%, 180% to 199%, and so on.  Ridiculous.  Negative keyboard tracking isn't supported here either.

(2) The K-Shift(what the manual calls Pivot) and Threshold parameters are switched.  If you change the K-Shift parameter, you'll change the Threshold.  And if you change the Threshold parameter, you'll change the K-Shift/Pivot.  This section is confusing and is overkill anyway.  I see virtually no use for a threshold parameter and even the pivot doesn't really buy you anything except tell you where the zero point is (that could be fixed permanently to middle C), and the fact that the Arturia programmers couldn't get it straight, and 4 revisions of MMV and 3.5 years later nobody has noticed, just shows how little understood and unused this is.  It's still totally baffling how this bug has survided this long and not been noticed though.  Maybe the fact is not one single person has ever used these controls in MMV's history.

(3) There are 4 low/hi keyboard trigger ranges that can be set, but all trigger menus in all modules only allow a choice to use the first 3.  There appears to be no way to use the 4th one.  How friggen hard is it to include the 4th one on all the menus?  Didn't they know there were 4 of them when programming the menus?  Do I really need to tell Arturia how to do their jobs?



Mixer Section
-------------

(1) The soft clipping only works intermittently and randomly when playing polyphonically.  Many notes and chords played come through with no soft clipping.  Soft clipping appears to be another monophonic function not useable in polyphonic patches.  Same soft clip problem as in the VCA envelopes.



Digital Delay
-------------

(1) The delay time knobs go to 5000 ms of delay, but the module is only capable of 3000 ms of delay.  The last 2000 ms of knob movement does nothing.  (I've gone on many diatribes about the questionable intelligence of computer programmers, but how the hell is it humanly possible to write a delay module and not know about this?  If 3 seconds of delay memory is allocated then give the knobs a 3 second range.  Or if the knob has a range of 5 seconds then allocate 5 seconds of delay memory.  It's really not hard to get the two to match.  Do I really need to point this out?  Sometimes it almost seems like a company wants to look totally incompetent to their customers.)



Phaser
------

(1) The resonance knob has very little affect when the phaser is set to 6 stages.  Depending on input material it can sometimes seem to do nothing.  Seems to work correctly only in 12 stage mode.

(2) When used in conjuntion with the Delay module, the right VCA2 phaser input doesn't work correctly.  It pans the sound to the right rather than keeping it centered as it does with the left VCA1 input.



Chorus
------

(1) Same bug as phaser bug number 2.

(2) The rate knob also changes the amount.  Thanks to Gordon Reid of SOS magazine for pointing out this ridiculous behavior.  The amount knob is supposed to change amount, and the rate knob should change rate.  So why then does the rate knob also change the amount?

(Poor Design Issues) The Chorus can be switched to type 1,2, or 3.  The manual being of no help only says these are simple, medium, complex.  What's really happing is that 1,2,3 refer to the number of chorus units.  But when selecting more than 1, the others run at completely different rates.  For instance, if you select 2, the second chorus seems to be running at maybe 2.5 times slower than the first.  No wonder it's hard to impossible to get full thick chorus sounds.  If you get chorus unit 1 to sound right, 2 is too slow and just adds an annoying swirling sound.  Set unit 2 to where it should be and 1 is now way to fast and sounding out of tune.  It just seems impossible to get a full sounding chorus sound without hearing all kinds of swirling and sweeping.  The way to do it is either, have the other units run at slightly below or above the rate of the first, or have them run at the same rate but out of phase, like 0, 120, and 240 degrees apart for a continual thinkening effect like some old string synths.  Add to that, that the stereo width has its own rate which seems to have the affect of panning the sound left and right rather than just stereofying it.  I'd really like a decent chorus unit in MMV.



Sequencer
---------

(1) In the little bit I tried to use the sequencer I uncovered many bugs and can't remember the specifics them all, other than so many of the trigger menu selections don't work and I've gotten strange sequencer behavior like it skipping from the first step to the last without running through the sequence and then getting stuck there.  My main use for the sequencer was simply to hit a key on a keyboard and have it run a sequence once then stop.  So simple a task, and going by the sequencer trigger menu options should be easily possible, but the sequencer ignored triggers from its own steps and envelope end triggers, so that simple task couldn't be done.  My advice to Arturia is to actually try thiese menu items out to see if they actually work before releasing this pile of bugs on the public.

(Poor Design Issues) The sequencer knobs have 12 steps of resolution to both the left and right of center to allow 12 semitones up or down from the current key (far too small a range for many things, I don't understand this limit).  Whether controlling osc or filter freq there are only these 12 +/- steps.  So the dial displays 12 numbers left and right, correct?  Of course not, because that would be common sense and make it easy to dial in the notes you want.  Arturia has no common sense and the dials instead are divided into a total of 100 steps left and 100 right ranging from -1.0 to 1.0.  So if you want a note to sound 7 semitones up, dial in something like 0.58 abouts and you have it.  Be careful because a 0.4 might get you 0 semitones or 1 because 12 integers don't go nicely into 1.0.  What the hell were they thinking.  I guess I need to make up a conversion chart.

(Poor Design Issues) There is a row of numbers for setting the next step number for each seq step.  Click on the number and move between 10 settings with the mouse and a redundant knob underneath also moves.  There are 8 of these redundant knobs with the sole purpose of doing what can already be done another way.  Why?  What a waste of panel real estate.  Why didn't they move those knobs up and give us a 4 rows of control voltages and a 32 step sequencer instead?  I just don't get what they were thinking when designing this sequencer.



External Audio Inputs
---------------------

(1) Unpredictable audio quality can range anywhere from sounding like horrible metalic noise, to clean audio with intermittent noise sometimes caused by nothing, sometimes caused by moving knobs or cables.  There is no way to rely on external audio working correctly on any given day or hour.




--------------- General MMV2 Synth Bugs ---------------


(1) Polyphonic patches plagued with clicking/popping noises on their attacks.  This is driving me insane.  Because the problem mostly goes away in monophonic mode I spent time trying to figure out what's going on.  Here it is.  In mono mode the processing power usage indicator goes up.  This means MMV is continuously running even when a note isn't being played, so all parameters are where they should be, and when a new note is played, the same voice is used.  In poly mode, when the VCA release time goes to zero, the voice deactivates, and module settings are left hanging in whatever state they are in at that point.  Then when a new voice is needed for a new note, one of the those previously used voices is used which is still set to whatever state it was left in when last used, and that junk appears at the start of the new note played.  Arturia is starting the envelope and sound of the new note before junk from the last voice is cleaned up.  That's not the way to do things.  Clean up first, then trigger the new note, geez.  Stuff like this really gets me angry, because it's so obvious it shouldn't be programmed this way and it's the kind of problem that can really make a synth useless.  This is one of the most major bugs in the general working of MMV.

(2) Midi Controllers assigned to knobs aren't saved with the patch.  This is totally screwed.  If for example you assigned a foot pedal to control filter freq in one patch, then at some later time assign a foot pedal to control lfo modulation in another patch, it will no longer be controlling filter freq in your earlier patch, but lfo modulation instead.  I guess it's now back to documenting midi patch assignments on paper and attaching them when a patch is loaded and removing them before closing the patch.  Unacceptable.  Arturia needs to understand that how a patch is controlled changes depending on the patch.  This is totally baffling to me.

(3) Grabbing a knob and turning it often displays a parameter box for the wrong knob.  Example, start turning the Sustain knob and up pops the display for LFO Delay instead.  Then you have to release the knob and grab it a second time to get the correct display.  With all the patching I'm doing, this is getting really old.  In fact, MMV sloppily displays two parameter boxes many times, sometimes the second appearing ontop of the first or sometimes it appears in a completely different area of the synth, appearing at times if you hold the mouse over a knob for a certain amount of time, or other times if you move the mouse over the knob.  The Phaser module is the worst at this kind of stuff.

(4) I have patches that bomb out when played too fast, or if played too high on the kybd, or if a cable is connected from one place to another, or if a knob is turned to a certain point.  These can cause anything from MMV to stop producing audio, to displaying an Windows error dialogue box that can only be seen after closing the MMV window.  Another person reported a bug with the S/H causing some kind of floating point overflow error.  I believe all of these flakey bugs that cause MMV to stop working based on how it's played or patched are all probably do to values going out of range and MMV not able to recover until it's launched again.  And some of these bugs will even cause you to have to exit a second time run it again to finally get it working.  Sloppiness.

(5) The manual is a poor english translation, is vague and lacks substance.  Want to know what the sawtooth and triangle waveforms change to when the PWM knob is moved?  Want to know what the different Chorus Type settings actually do?  Want to know if the LFO is monophonic or polyphonic?  Want to know whether the effects are arranged in parallel or serial and in what order?  The manual won't tell you.  The manual says you can click on a cable to select it and press the delete key to delete it.  Wrong, the manual also lies.  Want to see a plot of all of the multimode filter types?  The manual displays only 6 out of the 7, excluding the bandpass filter.  Why leave out the bandpass filter?  Because the manual is sloppy and incomplete.

(6) When installing version 2.0 I was asked if I wanted to install the version 1.2 VST.  Is the VST really that old version or is this just another bug?




--------------- Other MMV2 Synth Problems and Limitations ---------------


(1) A single knob setting can suck all the power out of MMV.  I loaded two patches for a bi-timbral sound.  Just playing 3 notes caused it to run out of processing power and make awful sounds.  The pwm was too fast on the lower notes, so in each patch I simply moved an osc bank freq knob a few octaves down lowering the rate from about 5Hz to 1Hz (just 4Hz).  The osc bank was set to LFO mode so shouldn't have been consuming much power to begin with.  Just that one adjustment allowed me to play 8 notes of polyphony with room to spare (could probably have gotten 10 notes).  That means polyphony was cut down by about a factor of 4 just because of the setting of one knob.  Something is wrong here.  In fact, for a 2GHz computer, sometimes I'm getting a lot less polyphony than I'd expect, and some of it seems to be related to issues like the above, where just a single knob setting or cable patched from one place to another can drag MMV way down.  I'm running the stand alone version.  I can't conceive of running MMV as a VST with a DAW or with other plug-ins running.  Software companies need to spend time optimizing their software for speed and efficiency because their own wastefulness could doom their own products.

(2) When connecting MIDI to control a knob on the MMV, there is no way to set the scale/range.  Rarely does anybody want a foot pedal, mod wheel, ribbon cable, or breath controller to control a knob from 0 to 100%.  Nor does MMV smooth MIDI to eliminate obvious stepping.  These problems in addition to the assignments not being saved with the patch makes this whole capability virtually useless for adding realtime expression while playing from any controllers beyond the velocity/aftertouch/modwheel jacks, and of limited use when trying to control MMV from a sequencer.  And aftertouch on most keyboards is neither polyphonic nor useable/controllable, so velocity and modwheel smoothed through an envelope follower are about the only controls you'll be able to use for realtime performance expression (remember the sustain pedal is unreliable in MMV).  Extremely poor for such a powerful synth.

(3) I can see no reason for some of the limits placed on what modules can be selected for the second row on MMV.  If I can select the formant filter for a 4th filter module, I should be able to instead select a 4th lowpass filter.  Only one ring modulator is allowed, yet something as seldom used as an envelope follower (especially when audio input doesn't work well, nor does the env fol trigger work) allows four to be selected.

(4) Arturia claim to be emulating the Mg modular.  But the MMV fixed filter bank isn't a fixed filter bank, it's an equalizer.  This is very deceptive.  They should provide a fixed filter bank like the Mg modular and a person could select which one they wanted like the phaser/chorus option.  The formant filter isn't really a formant filter either, but a parametric EQ.

(5) The Glide is what I guess would be refered to as constant speed, as it doesn't change speed based on interval distance.  There is no way to select constant time.  I don't know if the Mg modular is like this, my MultiMg isn't.  Constant time seems better.  With MMV's constant speed, if you hold down a large chord, all the notes won't slide into their destinations at the same time, and is very sloppy sounding.  And setting a comfortable glide for closely spaced notes will be too much for farther spaced notes.  Setting a comfortable glide for far spaced notes may not even be heard at all on closely spaced notes.  In addition, the glide is completely linear in its speed, so when it glides into a note it comes to an abrubt and very unnatural sounding stop.  Would be nice if there was a selection.




--------------- Closing Comments ---------------


All the bugs I've come across so far are things that I have stumbled across while programming patches in MMV2 stand alone PC version.  There could be still more that I haven't run across yet or ever.  I've only listed bugs that are Arturia's own doing and should show up on everybody elses MMV2 running on their machines.  I've left out anything that might be specific to a particular computer.  As it stands now, MMV2 is quite a disaster.

When I first got MMV2 I reported the goofy envelope shapes and settings being off by a factor of 7 to Arturia.  Their response was the envelopes on their Mg modular were shaped like MMV and also were off by a factor of 7.  By talking to others I have found the first to not be true, and the second I find hard to believe based on the fact that Mg envelopes are about the only ones on the planet to so carefully show time settings around their dials rather than generic numbers of 0 to 10.  I believe I was given false answers just so they neither have to fix the problems nor admit they exist.  There's no reason to emulate idiotic behavior in a synth anyway even if the Mg acted this way.  MMV envelopes aren't calibrated nor have the same ranges as the Mg nor follow the panel graphics around the knob, so their claim of Mg values being off by 7 makes no sense and is irrelevant in MMV.

Arturia has forums on their website.  I have seen somebody who claims to work for Arturia appear only in certain sections, but never in any of the technical problems sections.  No question asked about bugs or problems will be answered by them, nor does it appear Arturia has any interest in reading them.  This total lack of interest in wanting to find out what might be wrong with their own synths nor willingness to correct the problems just isn't right.  Instead they just keep packaging the same bug infested code into new products and are leaving a messy trail behind with a bunch of pissed off customers.  I'm getting tired of buying software that doesn't work and this is where I will fight back.  These damn software companies put 99% time and effort to create a software package, but don't want to put in the last 1% to complete it.

MMV has been through versions 1.0, 1.2, 1.5, and 2.0, and has been on the market for 3.5 years, and yet it still has major bugs that were present since the beginning.  They included 6 new modules in version 1.5, 4 of which don't work correctly.  And this is where I have another problem.  I'm one of last people to buy this synth, so why am I the first to be finding all these problems.  All this stuff should have been reported to Arturia long ago.  Best I can understand is they are being sold into market with very little ability and with simplistic uses.  If the only envelope shapes a person uses are a percussive attack/decay or sustained organ type and nothing else, then the totally messed up envelope shapes go unnoticed.  Never plug more than one mod source into an osc, then jacks that stop working go unnoticed.  Never use a formant filter for anything beyond the 5 included vowel sounds, then parameters that don't get saved go unnoticed.  I could repeat this for every damn bug I've found and you will see that it appears a potentially powerful synth like this is probably not being used for much more than simple boring SH-101 type bass sounds or ugly techno filter noises.  If you want to hear a harpsichord that's so awful it sounds like an 1970's organ harpsichord preset, or guitars that sound nothing like guitars, or horrible drum sounds, and so on, those are included as presets in MMV2, and also display the total wasted abilities of what MMV2 is really capable of and also show the sad state of synthesis/music these days.  Now you can buy those awful sounds in Arturia's new Analog Factory synth.  Yet another product they've worked on before completing and fixing MMV2.  And this is part of the reason these bugs don't get fixed (beyond programmers who don't try their own code to see if it works), is because of the level of the market they're being sold to, Arturia can get away with it.  A modular synth if for doing sophisticated things you can't do on a MiniMg, but MMV sure isn't being used that way.  Now I have to be the one to beta test their synth 3 years and 4 versions later.  Ridiculous.

If Arturia fixes these damn bugs, I'll go around recommending it to everybody.  But as of now MMV is a disaster and in no shape to be used for anything beyond the most simplistic uses.  I'm getting tired of wasting money on software that doesn't work, so I'm going to steer anybody clear of buying bug-ridden Arturia products on all boards I'm on until they get off their butts and fix it.
Title: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: bensuthers on November 15, 2006, 05:24:26 am
get a life.

it sounds great.
Title: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: omissis on November 16, 2006, 10:19:27 am
Quote from: "bensuthers"
get a life.

it sounds great.


Start to get yours out of this forum, troll.
Title: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: Elhardt on November 16, 2006, 11:20:52 am
Quote from: "bensuthers"
get a life.

it sounds great.



What the hell is it with this guy?  I spent money on a synth that barely works.  I've had to waste a lot of my time documenting the problems so hopefully Arturia will solve some of them.  This should have been done years ago, but wasn't.  I want the thing to operate as it should.  You apparently don't care if it works like crap.  It doesn't matter whether it sounds great if there are too many problems with using it in the first place.

-Elhardt
Title: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: MarkM on November 17, 2006, 01:28:48 am
I don't think it works like crap, but many of your issues have merit.
Title: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: Sweep on November 17, 2006, 02:05:11 am
Quote from: "bensuthers"
get a life.

it sounds great.


I think I can apreciate what you're saying with this.  Elhardt's claim that the Modular V `barely works' is quite clearly absurd.

On the other hand, if Kenneth Elhardt is spending his time detailing niggles with the Modular V, then at least he's doing something potentially more useful than some of the other stuff he's done on websites in the recent past - like posting to say how other people should or shouldn't play their instruments, for example.

I've seen him post to at least two groups (maybe more) with some ridiculous idea that editing a patch while playing is wrong. Basically he thinks he can lay down the law about how other people should play, and he takes as his starting point the distinction between patch controls and performance controls, then makes that distinction ridiculously literal by saying you should only use the performance controls while performing and never touch anything else.

Of course we've all seen skilled synth players break Elhardt's rule any number of times, and I'm sure all of us have created sounds in performance that depend on editing while playing - thus creating sounds that Elhardt thinks we shouldn't be allowed to make.

So if he's minutely detailing every little defect (or suppose defect) with the Modular V, then at least he's not just wasting people's time with his silly rules for how other people should be allowed to play.  He's turning his obsessive nature to something that might be useful.

I can't help wondering how he would have got on with the original Mg modular systems, considering his frustrations with the Modular V.

In the final analysis, real musicians will welcome the Modular V as a versatile instrument that costs less than a single module in hardware, despite any shortcomings and defects. Many will barely scratch the surface, as Elhardt rightly says - but many more will use this instrument creatively. Hopefully Arturia will continue as a company for a lot longer and will address any remaining problems - despite people like Kenneth Elhardt going around other Internet groups telling people the Modular V and other Arturia products are virtully unuseable. I hope people take the trouble to find out the real situation for themselves and don't take Elhardt's exaggerations seriously.
Title: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: tarvini on November 18, 2006, 02:03:28 am
Quote
In the final analysis, real musicians will welcome the Modular V as a versatile instrument that costs less than a single module in hardware, despite any shortcomings and defects. Many will barely scratch the surface, as Elhardt rightly says - but many more will use this instrument creatively. Hopefully Arturia will continue as a company for a lot longer and will address any remaining problems - despite people like Kenneth Elhardt going around other Internet groups telling people the Modular V and other Arturia products are virtully unuseable. I hope people take the trouble to find out the real situation for themselves and don't take Elhardt's exaggerations seriously.


Excuse me for butting in, but, no, Elhardt is absolutely correct, and may even be understating the problems. Doesn't anyone hear the clicks when going from high to low notes, or need to map CC's to more than one destination, just to name two *very* basic issues? Just these two make it "virtully unuseable [sic]" for me. The issues Elhardt mentioned are just the ones he happened to run into (as I did) while trying to get work done. In spite of these, he was able to work around them and, along the way, create clips which likely resulted in increased sales for Arturia, and gave them considerably better documentation on the problems than is the norm (trust me) as well. If I were Arturia, I would be glad to have him; I would also have noticed and fixed the problems by now (even if I did not receive a single complaint).

PS - most of the "real musicians" I know do indeed care about the quality of their instruments
Title: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: Elhardt on November 20, 2006, 07:24:41 pm
Thanks for the support Tarvini.

This Sweep guy of course is being a hypocrite by singling me out.  There was one guy here who said that MMV is useless because of a single problem in the S/H module that took him about 2 hours to reproduce.  Yet Sweep is completely silent on that one.

I, on the other hand have found problems in about 2/3's of the modules and a bunch in the general working of the synth.  When 2/3's of a product doesn't work correctly, that makes it a barely useable product.  I didn't buy MMV just to patch up simple MiniMg type patches.  If that's all I used it for, I might too think MMV is okay.  I bought it to use like a modular, and that means using it beyond simplistic patches that I can create on other synths.

And I'm getting tired of his claims that I'm telling people how to play their synths.  That whole thing came up after years of hearing people complaining that the knobs on their synths make zipper noise.  I pointed out that's because they're there for programming sounds.  That's why they make that stepping zipper sound, because they're digitized into descrete values to be written into patch memory.  They were'nt put there as performance controls.  There are modwheels, velocity, aftertouch, pedals, etc. for performance controls.  I'm getting tired if being blamed for the design of synths that I have nothing to do with.  I'm simply pointing out facts, much as if I said the sky was blue.  I'm giving people the info they need to avoid the problems they're having.  As you can see, he has offered no solution to avoiding zippering knobs, only complaints about me.  I could care less how they want to use their synths, but I get tired of years of them complaining to lists I'm on that a synth is no good, when in fact it is them that are not using it as it was designed to be used.  

This never used to be an issue 20 years ago, but now that non-musicians are buying synths, they can't play them, so the keyboard and performance controls are virtually useless to them.  They instead try to play a synth by turning knobs instead and when that doesn't work well, they criticize the synth.

-Elhardt
Title: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: Elhardt on November 20, 2006, 07:32:37 pm
Quote from: "tarvini"
PS - most of the "real musicians" I know do indeed care about the quality of their instruments


Exactly.  For some reason Sweep has been against me reporting bugs in MMV from the start.  He seems to want MMV to remain as is, full of bugs.  I don't understand that ridiculous attitude.  He tries to justify it by bringing up the price of MMV.  Of the other guy here who said it still sounds great.  None of that matters when the product is full of so many problems.  And it's all a diversion.  I never claimed MMV didn't sound great or that there was anything wrong with the price.  It's the bugs and problems that's the issue.  There's no way a real hardware modular could get away with all the problems MMV has.

-Elhardt
Title: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: tarvini on November 21, 2006, 01:17:52 am
As far as the price goes, I paid more for MMV than the other softsynths I own (FM7 and Korg Legacy Collection). The FM7 is at least as complex as MMV, costs less (at the time I purchased it), yet it has far fewer shortcomings than MMV. The KLC (MS20/PolySix/Wavestation/MS20c) combo cost less than my single MMV, and it is near bulletproof... there are some annoyances with the gui layout, but very few real bugs. In addition, the Alsa Modular Synth (which is what I am turning to until the bugs are fixed in MMV) is actually considerably more flexible than MMV, costs nothing, and certainly has no more bugs than MMV... sounds good too. At any rate the comparison of softsynth prices to HW prices is apples to oranges, anyway, and software is MUCH easier to debug than hardware, so there is no excuse for not doing it.

The MMV was, for me, deceptively charming. It has a nice-looking interface and great-sounding raw oscillators. In reality, actually using it was such a frustrating experience that it has become my last choice. I keep coming to this site mainly to see if they have released any fixes.
Title: Update for Mg Modular V?
Post by: bpert on November 26, 2006, 04:45:01 pm
I have gone through Eldhardt's bugs and confirmed them.  Anyone arguing with his wisdom is barking up the wrong tree.  He is correct in saying that these bugs should be fixed by now!!!  The program has been out for 3 years and the damn enveolope doesn't even work!  I hope that arturia updates Arp2600 and Mg Modular soon, or I am selling my vintage collection.
Title: Update for Mg Modular V?
Post by: bpert on November 26, 2006, 04:46:44 pm
I have gone through Eldhardt's bugs and confirmed them.  Anyone arguing with his wisdom is barking up the wrong tree.  He is correct in saying that these bugs should be fixed by now!!!  The program has been out for 3 years and the damn enveolope doesn't even work!  I hope that arturia updates Arp2600 and Mg Modular soon, or I am selling my vintage collection.
Title: bugs
Post by: tjohnson on December 08, 2006, 10:22:01 pm
I purchased Mg Modular V 2.0 about a month ago and was pretty happy with it until I began stumbling across some of the bugs that were mentioned above. I've seen a few others not mentioned as well, such as:

  Patches not restoring properly: I had one VCO in a bank of three suddenly not track the sequencer with it's neighbors when a patch was reloaded. It was stuck on one note, and not even turning the tuning knob or restoring the patch again had any effect. The "fix" was to unplug the output (sine) and instead connect the triangle out, which seemed to be tracking fine. When the sine out was reconnected, the VCO was then tracking normally.

   Several times I've had patches not behave correctly until they were restored a second time. I have not tracked down which parameter(s) are not being properly restored however.

  The Mod input on the formant filter seems to have only two bits of resolution, resulting in four discrete steps of the filter configuration as the input is swept. The manual vaguely implies some sort of smooth transition is to be expected, but isn't clear on just what characteristics of this filter bank are supposed to be modulated by this input.

  The fixed filter bank knobs are supposed to vary the gain of each passband separately, however turning any of the knobs fully counterclockwise seems to almost completely zero the gain for all  frequencies, essentially driving the overall amplitude to zero.

   This software synth does indeed "sound great", however if your goal is to DESIGN a sound from the ground up, the frustrating functional problems may well relegate it to the toy category.
Title: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: gregae on December 16, 2006, 01:35:10 pm
What 'bugs' me is that after Eldhart went to great lengths to list and explain in great detail every issue that he found with MMV, there hasn't been a response (not even an acknowledgement) from Arturia in this forum.

It suggests that Arturia either doesn't monitor the forum, or worse yet, doesn't care.

Thanks, Eldhart, for your efforts in identifying the issues with MMV and taking the time to make them known!

Great music, BTW!


Greg
Title: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: elektrolurch on December 23, 2006, 05:38:46 pm
... and now version 2.2 doesn't work propperly in FLStudio anymore! See Looptalk :cry:
Title: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: overState2007 on August 04, 2007, 03:31:45 pm
I've said it before and I'll say it again.  If it works perfectly, it ain't analog!

Clearly Arturia doesn't have the same customer service standards as, say, Starbuck's.  While alot of the bugs listed here fall under the category of "you get what you pay for" (my grandfather bought me some crappy CASIO phase modulation synth for well over $1000 back in '87), that fellow Vincent could at least placate you guys.

Keep in mind---Bob Mg, rest his soul, was probably more passionate about his instruments than any of us are.  If he threw his lot in with the MMV, it's because it does everything he designed his original to be able to do.  For under $500, we should be glad the thing makes any sound at all!
Title: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: Sweep on August 05, 2007, 01:52:19 am
Quote from: "overState2007"
I've said it before and I'll say it again.  If it works perfectly, it ain't analog!!


Well, that's true in many ways. :D   I suppose there are people who'd argue whether problems with the Arturia accurately replicate problems with the original hardware Mg modular.

I agree with your point about what might be expected for the price - and I've made a similar point myself in the past.

The main issue with Elhardt's complaints seems to me to be one of relevance - just how seriously they affect useability. He tends to exaggerate and to amplify problems far beyond the point of reason.

It's also the case, as I pointed out in another thread on this site, that he came off pretty badly when he went on the Mg forums and attacked a very well-respected person there. Amongst other things, it was confirmed that he has absolutely no experience with the hardware Mg modular.

I've often wondered what would happen if Elhardt was let loose on a hardware modular. All his very conspicuous frustration and anger would most likely erupt into fury at the many problems that modular users from Wendy Carlos to Keith Emerson struggled with.

Yes, there are things that Arturia could do with sorting out with the Modular V. But that's generally true of instruments of any level of sophistication. Good musicians work with the defects of an instrument, work round them, or even make a virtue of them. That's what hardware modular owners did. That's what those of us who are using the Modular V do as well. I've got things with the Modular V that I didn't expect were really practical with the instrument. It's full of surprises when you really dig into it and explore what it can do - which is far more constructive than moaning about it.

It's true there are some slightly more significant differences between the Modular V and the Mg original amongst Elhardt's complaints. He raised a question about the sequencer which proved to be accurate when I discussed the matter with someone with a Mg modular. What he was trying to do was a bit odd, but it has to be conceded that he could have done it with the Mg and the relevant section wasn't reproduced with the Arturia. A little experimentation, though, and I was able to find an alternative patching that did the same job. I posted that on this site in reply to Elhardt's post about the problem.

In such cases the Arturia may not be identical to the Mg, but the principle of modular synthesis is similar: you need to experiment, dig deep, and discover the real nature of the instrument. Not only is the Arturia a lot cheaper than the Mg (as well as smaller and generally more manageable), but it also has some appreciable advantages to offset any remaining bugs. Stable tuning is probably the biggest one. Talk with anyone who used the original 901 series oscillators (the first and the least stable of the Mg modular system oscillators) and they'll very readily agree about that advantage. Patch memories are another big plus. Those of us who are old enough to have used complex synths with no patch memories can definitely appreciate the difference. :D

In short, the Modular V isn't perfect, but no instrument really is (including the Mg modular). And it's brilliant, defects or not, so long as you take a pinch or two of the patience and perseverence that Mg modular owners seem to have needed in bucketloads.
Title: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: overState2007 on August 06, 2007, 02:42:58 pm
Exactly!  My best work comes when I put myself in a place where it's just me and the instrument.  It was that old "it ought to be this other way..." mentality that rock music, especially prog rock set out against.  

I don't pop open the MMV to have complete control over my sound.  I tend to throw ideas at it and see what they come out as.  The marks Arturia hit are most crucial.  The ones they probably missed (and I'm not talking about stability issues, cpu, preset management, etc---that just goes with the territory) matter very little to me as none of the freeware VSTi's I've been using for years do what the MMV does, and surely none of the industry standard keyboards do what it does either!

Who knows, maybe that's how Mr. Elhardt expresses affection for an instrument?
Title: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: Hugues on September 24, 2007, 10:47:23 pm
I don't even care to run MMV again to check out those bugs, but I am sure Elhardt is right. If you feel good at setting a few patch cords and randomly tweaking knobs until your musical inspiration comes, MMV might do the job. But if you expect this software to behave like the real thing, you are in for a big deception.

I am a programmer and the price argument won't satisfy me. I hardly never buy software. There is no cost to duplicating software, you pay the amount the marketing guys think they can suck up from the users. Having been ripped off for another softsynth costing more doesn't mean it's ok for the cheaper one to be barely usable. Arturia should just stop marketing their software as Mg Modular, it isn't and will never be.

And I think pointing out Elhardt has never used a real Mg Modular is irrelevant. This guy surely knows how a modular synth should behave and clearly see that MMV as strange behaviour. Just check out his orchestral MMV demo and you'll understand he knows what he is speaking about. And it's not because the original Mg Modular has flaws that the only alternative is software. I am building a Synthesizers.com modular (Mg clone) because the sound and user interface really can't compare to software, and the original design flaws and limitation of technology at that time has been corrected.

I admit I have been deceived by most softsynth and Arturia's product has better sound quality than most of the softsynth I have tried. But still, what really amaze me is how DSP coders think a 5-15 lines of code algorithm is a faithfull emulation of a Mg filter. Even worse, Arturia admitted reusing the same routines in many of their V synths. You would really need to be a newb to believe the same source code will produce accurate emulation of the synth of different manufacturers.
Title: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: Sweep on September 24, 2007, 11:37:36 pm
Just to pick a couple of salient points and not waste my time and the time of other people reading this:

Quote from: "Hugues"
I don't even care to run MMV again to check out those bugs, but I am sure Elhardt is right..


You can't be bothered checking out this synth properly but you've decided this guy is right. :D  Enough said, really.

However:
Quote from: "Hugues"
If you feel good at setting a few patch cords and randomly tweaking knobs until your musical inspiration comes, MMV might do the job. But if you expect this software to behave like the real thing, you are in for a big deception.


How do you know what other people do with this synth?  You have the cheek to belittle users of this instrument by claiming we program at random.  You don't have a clue what other people are doing with the instrument, or what other experience people may have.

And BTW, Bob Mg endorsed the MMV.  So have several other people with Mg modular experience.

I won't tell you what people with Mg modular experience have said about Kenneth Elhardt, because it wouldn't be fair.  Suffice to say your confidence in him isn't shared.  The fact that you have this confidence without properly checking out the MMV says it all.

By all means go ahead with your .com modular.  Incidentally if you want to check out the Mg forums you'll find some discussions about how to make it sound more Mg-like.  You'd be much better sticking to an instrument you want to spend time learning to play, instead of making ill-informed comments about one you have no interest in learning to play.

And nor is the MMV unplayable, as Elhardt claimed and as you've also said.

All these Arturia products are instruments, based on more familiar hardware instruments, but nevertheless instruments in their own right. I've said this before and I shouldn't need to keep saying it (but unfortunately it seems I do need to keep saying it) - I keep a so-called `real' Mg Voyager alongside my PC, and yet I use Arturia's MiniMgV because the Arturia synth is musically very useful and isn't replaced by a `real' Mg.  Chris Franke has a `real' Mg modular and also uses the MMV.  If I had a `real' ARP 2600 I'd still make a lot of use of my Arturia 2600V because of the special qualities it has.  I much prefer it to the Timewarp 2600 emulation despite the latter being generally agreed to be closer to the original, simply because the Arturia is so musically useful.

At the end of the day these are instruments, to make music with.  And they work excellently, despite claims to the contrary by people who'd rather moan and also belittle people they know nothing about, instead of making music.
Title: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: Hugues on September 25, 2007, 03:11:29 pm
What I have said is I don't bother running it AGAIN. I did try it out but concluded it has strange behaviour and didn't sound the way I have come to expect with good synthesizers. My comments about random tweaking was a bit unclear. What I mean is that it can create good sounds but I feel the process of creating them is a bit random because the controls doesn't respond in the way I am used to.

I knew bob Mg endorsed this product, and flame me all you want for my next comment. I am not basing my opinions on those of bob Mg. How many Mg modular emulations are on the market? It's hard to deny Arturia is the best at the moment. And I feel it's also hard to deny that the emulation bears resemblance to the original.

I was impressed by elhardt work with MMV, I came around this forum to check out what he thought of the softsynth. And I was surprised that he had some disappointment using the program. I feel the same way about it last time I used it. In no way I was willing to give a musician advice as to how useful the program was. Just wanted to let know potential users of the awkward feel I had using the software compared to using the real thing. And how the program might not appeal to synthesists.

Furthermore, I think it should be known how the lousy coding at Arturia affect the quality of the program. Not only bugs, but also how code reuse reduce the credibility of their emulations.
Title: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: Sweep on September 25, 2007, 05:14:56 pm
Ok. Anybody who can read can check what you said the first time round.

And I'm not interested in flaming anybody. I'm just interested in some basic common sense and some basic musicianship.

I'm inclined to trust Bob Mg more than someone who's never played his modular synth. And I'm inclined to trust people who own Mg modulars or who've used them, more than someone who hasn't.

But at the end of the day it's the responsiveness of the instrument that matters most. While some people have been moaning about the MMV, others have been making music with it - and sometimes in conjunction with so-called `real' Mg synths.

That's why I put an MMV demo piece on my download page. I also put a 2600V demo piece on there. You can hear the 2600V sounds nothing like the MMV, in answer to the people who claim they're the same synth in different guise (bollocks!), and you can also hear things you'd find very difficult to do with a so-called `real' 2600, showing something of what the Arturia synth is capable of with a bit of work.

I think if I was a site moderator I'd close this topic, because it's at a dead end.
Title: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: Hugues on September 25, 2007, 09:07:07 pm
> But at the end of the day it's the responsiveness of the instrument that matters most.

I have to totally agree with that. You seem to have quite a lot of experience with softsynth. Something I couldn't solve with VST is the issue of latency and responsiveness. It seems some people get around these problems but I can't make it work.

Now, I have a 3ghz intel pc, 2 gb ram and use a maudio audiophile sound card with asio drivers. Not the best setup but clearly not the worse. I tried a few sequencers and trackers and had a lot of latency, clicking and popping noise from almost all softsynth except the most basic one. Sometimes the latency is quite workable, but now and then, the software hangs and goes into nasty clicking and poping noise.

I wonder if those were problems a lot of people have. Because currently I can't get decent performance running 1 good softsynth in a sequencer. And I don't see what's wrong in my hardware and software setup.
Title: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: Sweep on September 25, 2007, 10:56:53 pm
Yes and no.  I'd like to be able to help with this, but unfortunately I don't usually use the MMV as a VST program (in fact I don't think I've ever done that), and never with a sequencer program. I use stand-alone mode and play everything by hand from a keyboard.

I do have a few VST programs, but they're relatively small scale things and again I play by hand.

You could try changing the sample rate if you haven't already tried that, but beyond that I don't have the relevant experience to help you with that setup. Hopefully someone else here has the relevant experience.

If no-one responds to this topic, try opening a new one to ask about this. It may be there's someone here who'd help if they saw your question, but they wouldn't be reading this topic. Good luck. Someone must be able to advise you.
Title: Looks like no help in sight for MMV bugs....
Post by: jcotner on October 17, 2007, 08:52:57 pm
Sorry to say folks that after I questioned Arturia about when they would fix the current bugs, I got the following answer:

"We are currently working on some updates for the Prophet V and Jupiter-8V.
I must admit that the MMV2 updates are not planned at the moment."

I'm not going to get in any sort of duel with anybody else here about this. I've used a Mg 3-C and I'm just not happy with the current state of the MMV. Some of these bugs should have been fixed by now.
How can I justify spending hours of my time trying to work around things that should have been fixed a long time ago. Absynth sure doesn't have bugs to this extent. I just expect it to work the way the manual describes it, this includes the GUI and data values. Arturia is cleaning up other products, why is MMV the stepchild?
Title: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: shoji on December 01, 2007, 03:32:27 pm
Elhart - I agree with you entirely. I have been trying to get the MMV working a battery of various machines since 2004, and each time I have thought, well, maybe its the machine, maybe needs more CPU, or maybe its me, but clearly the glitches are enough to make you want to stop making music altogether!

Have you had any response from Arturia?

When it works, it sounds awesome, but with all the bugs, its basically impossible to use as intended. A crying shame and a total waste of money.

FIX IT ARTURIA - please...
Title: GUI failure in Cuase 4.1 PC
Post by: Stadanko on December 04, 2007, 02:02:56 am
The Gui has totally failed and will not work with either MMV or the ARP2600 when used as a plugin inside the new cubase 4.1 update. I have no idea what it could be. I updated my video driver. I un-installed and reinstalled. The standalone versions works fine and they work fine in the kore 1 stand alone version but not cubase!

Every time I have contacted arturia they always give me a friendly brush like, "maybe later, we're busy."

Sorry to say it folks but they could care less about these products or you. They've got all their eggs in the hybrid hardware basket!

I've stopped using their products since I can't use them whether I want to or not.

You tell me how that's worth even $1
Title: Re: GUI failure in Cuase 4.1 PC
Post by: Sweep on December 04, 2007, 02:55:29 am
Well I stopped posting here because of this endless moaning.

But let's have a look at this:

Quote from: "Stadanko"
The standalone versions works fine and they work fine in the kore 1 stand alone version but not cubase!


Well, think about it for a moment. Could it possibly be your new version of Cubase?

The Arturia stuff works fine in standalone mode. Great, it works then. It also works in your Kore software. Great, it works.

But it doesn't work now you've got a new version of Cubase.

And yet you insist the problem must be with Arturia, despite the fact that you agree their software works outside Cubase.

Doesn't this strike you as rather illogical?

It'd make sense, at least, to have a word with the Cubase people.

But assuming the thing that needs to be adjusted is something with the Arturia synths, let's consider that:

Ok, you expect the Arturia stuff to work with Cubase, and presumably you've got other software that is compatible with it. It'd be much better if Arturia and Cubase were compatible. But basically a separate company, Cubase, has come out with a new version of their software, completely outside Arturia's control, and you expect them to just drop everything they're doing and jump to it just because you happen to want to use these two bits of software together. And in addition to you, there's a collection of other people who want Arturia to drop everything else and jump to it to sort out compatibility issues with software that isn't made by Arturia and is outside their control, just because that's the setup they happen to want.

It's the same on other software forums as well. I recently bought FM8. It's excellent, though NI fall short a bit with their support. But their forum is just like here - complaints and cries of `I've stopped using it because they won't make it do what I want.'

For God's sake, if everyone behaved like that there wouldn't be any electronic music. What if Wendy Carlos had just complained about the problems with the early Mg modular and said `I've stopped using it because it dioesn't do this and that'? What if Tangerine Dream, Klaus Schulze, Kraftwerk and so on wouldn't use the early analogue synths because they had tuning problems? What if Peter Gabriel and a host of others hadn't used the Fairlight because of its shortcomings?

Or what if Depeche Mode had stopped using the PPG Wave 2.2 because PPG had said it would work with the Waveterm, and then when the Waveterm came out they'd made technical improvements and you needed a Wave 2.3 instead? No doubt that was annoying, and quite equivalent to finding something in software doesn't have a compatibility you'd maybe been led to believe it would have. Yes, it's annoying, but they got on with making music with what they had. They didn't stop using something that worked perfectly well on its own just because they were miffed that they couldn't do other stuff with it that they'd expected to be able to do.

Nothing is perfect, and you just make yourself miserable and achieve nothing if you focus on that. Today's software certainly isn't perfect, but it's quite amazing what's available to us now. The Arturia software isn't perfect. It may not always be playable in the way you want it to be, but it's definitely playable. And if you sit at a keyboard and hook up to a recording device like most people have always done in electronic music you can do quite amazing things with an Arturia synth. There will always be things you need to get round, problems that get in the way till you find a musical way to deal with them, and there will always be thoughts of `wouldn't it be nice if it did this....'

Arturia don't have unlimited resources. No company has that. Nor do they have any control over other other companies, whether they're Steinberg or Microsoft or whoever. It's the same for NI, or any other company. And so long as we use software we're going to have compatibility issues between what different companies make.

Now I'm going to leave this forum again and concentrate on making music, because that's far more valuable than reading complaints. I'll be using several instruments that allegedly don't work. But they do.
Title: reply
Post by: Stadanko on December 04, 2007, 04:24:04 am
first of all, I doubt anybody would try to make music if they couldn't see the controls you pretentious snob! If I can't see it, I can't control it now can I?


So what if it works on its own, does that help with sequencing or working with it inside of a DAW? Am I supposed to change DAWs because of Arturia? Sorry if I don't feel like spending that kind of time or money... I'm not having problems with any other plugins in this fashion.  

And for the record NI does updates far more often that Arturia does. NI is not stretching themselves so thin that they can't support their products properly.

I need fundamental functionality in order to use it I'm not just whining about bugs..I can tolerate a few those.I contacted Arturia awhile back to report that the mouse wheel scroll was not working in MMV and they replied that they'd get to it on the next update. I was a little bummed but left it at that.  

This is entirely different, so shove it!
Title: more testing
Post by: Stadanko on December 04, 2007, 08:27:23 pm
After rolling back the versions to the older ones the problem is less pronounced but still happening if you switch between Arturia plugins. Also, this problem is occurring in Ableton live.

You see, as the world of computers continues to evolve so must even the grandest of plugins like your precious Arturia....

Most of the big music software companies do updates every several months. Its kind of a standard, but I'm sure a tough as nails prick like you wouldn't understand that......ayyy sweep!
Title: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: Stadanko on December 04, 2007, 08:38:19 pm
oh yeah, I forgot to mention that there is no plan currently for an update to MMV from what I've read.  


SO that's that! It won't get fixed anytime soon and I'm done venting, so now I will go make music with the rest of my plugins which do work!

I'll check back with Arturia in a year or 2 to see if all of these products haven't gone legacy.........I'm thinking they might.

  :o
Title: workaround sort of
Post by: Stadanko on December 04, 2007, 11:37:05 pm
By dropping out of duel display mode I am able to make the GUIs work but there is still some glitching . I can make that work for now. Just wanted to let anyone who has the same problem know.....
Title: Origin
Post by: Stadanko on December 05, 2007, 08:51:49 pm
I will say despite all of my frustration about there plugins they appear to have gone the distance with Origin. If they have forsaken their older stuff I hope the results of the Origin prove well worth it. Perhaps by designing their own hardware layout they will have a more robust unit with less problems. Not that I could afford to buy one, but damn I do like new ideas! Very innovative and somewhat original at the same time.....definitely forward thinking and I give them credit for that!
Title: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: Moogedy Moog on January 02, 2008, 05:28:27 am
I registered this account specifically to share my bug finds and improvement sugestions, but after reading Elhardt's, any professional could safely start questioning whether MMV is an internet joke or just a promising piece of software nobody bothered updating anymore for some strange reason.

MMV is unique, I've seen nothing remotely similar on the software market, there's plain and simple no decent alternative when it comes to Mg Modular emulation, and it would be a shame if MMV stayed in this arguably deplorable state for too long.

Nevermind the nasty bits, so far I've been able to replicate every patch for the real Mg Modular in MMV, it's just that the process is different due to several design flaws. My point to all this? get it fixed, improve it, I'm sure Bob would have liked it that way 8)

Regards.
Title: Re: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: TiUser on July 17, 2008, 07:02:33 pm
Hi.
This thread is running for almost 2 years now and I would be glad to know if anything has been changed in the meantime on MMV2...

I like the basic sound of MMV2 but I have to say I still can confirm some of the more simplistic bugs with the current demo version. I won't take the effort to check all of what was initially said but I believe it is true as well.

So Arturia, has anything changed, fixed with MMV2 in current version 2.2???

MMV2 would be wonderful if everything would work proper!
Title: Re: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: poropat on July 19, 2008, 10:10:43 am
Hi.
This thread is running for almost 2 years now and I would be glad to know if anything has been changed in the meantime on MMV2...

I like the basic sound of MMV2 but I have to say I still can confirm some of the more simplistic bugs with the current demo version. I won't take the effort to check all of what was initially said but I believe it is true as well.

So Arturia, has anything changed, fixed with MMV2 in current version 2.2???

MMV2 would be wonderful if everything would work proper!

Since the origin is still not shipping, I think it's unusefull to hope anything about bug corrections
or improvement in Arturia VST's.
When Origin will be ready and sold, if we have chance they won't create a new Instrument,
maybe we could hope some bug corrections or improvements on existing VST's.
Title: Re: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: TiUser on July 25, 2008, 04:34:01 pm
Hi.

I am still around the corner... sitting here in doubt how serious to rate some of the issues.

One is the pronounced popping or clicking in polymode... but stop... I tweaked some envelope attacks slightly and it seems to disappear... so it's just about fast envelopes that produces such punchy effects on every other fast synth too?...

Maybe there are some stupid issues in MMV2 - especially for guys who do extensive patching - but how "unusable" is it really? Isn't it still the better "Mini" for the same price?
Title: Re: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: Sweep on July 25, 2008, 11:13:00 pm
Hi.

I am still around the corner... sitting here in doubt how serious to rate some of the issues.

One is the pronounced popping or clicking in polymode... but stop... I tweaked some envelope attacks slightly and it seems to disappear... so it's just about fast envelopes that produces such punchy effects on every other fast synth too?...

Maybe there are some stupid issues in MMV2 - especially for guys who do extensive patching - but how "unusable" is it really? Isn't it still the better "Mini" for the same price?

Changing the sample rate often helps get rid of popping and clicking, but yours sounds like a different problem from the one normally reported, since changing the attacks has cured it.

I've said this many times before, but it does need to be repeated because of the persistence of one or two detractors: the MMV is not unuseable. No more than the original Mg modular, anyway, which anyone with experience will tell you was a difficult and demanding instrument with quirks and problems.

Incidentally I seem to recall Larry Fast commenting on problems with sluggish attack on the Mg modular envelopes. He actually ran some tests, and the Mg ones were the worst he had.

For just one example of the `unuseable' MMV in action, making sounds you might not expect from it, try `Rainfall in Kyoto' on my music page:

http://sweep.infinite9ths.com/

This piece was done entirely with the MMV.

The same site also has a whole collection of pieces done entirely with the MMV (in one case with a Voyager as well) by another musician, Brad Gilbert. Try this link:

http://infinite9ths.com
Title: Re: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: TiUser on July 26, 2008, 12:35:30 am
Thanks for the link. Interesting music and evidence that MMV can do music ;)

I am still not sure if it's wise to buy MMV. There are definitely some odd things, but in a way I agree that it is maybe a kind of emulation of more or less "original" imperfection... I never owned a Modular and I never will, so maybe the "digital perfection" view is just distorted by the "great vintage analogues" in some way...

I think I have to experiment a bit more but actually MMV got definitely some brownie points back... and I still feel MMV is still the better Mini with the richer sound but harder to operate... ;)

...and for all who hesitate with Arturia stuff but love analogue sound might take a look on SonicProjects OP-X... a great, fat sounding emulation of the Oberheim OB-X that definitely fit's the bill...  ;D



Title: Re: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: TiUser on August 28, 2008, 11:44:06 am
Hi Folks,
after a long struggle I finally bite the bullet to order MMV2. The "buy one, get another one free" promo may have influenced this decision too...

I have checked out the demo many times and I like the basic sound. MMV2 may not be perfect, especially to those who want to replace a real modular synth by it and I have reproduced some of the reported issues, but finally that's not my goal.

Maybe I am after the "most simplistic uses" that were initially criticized...  ;) but I think you still get more with MMV2 than the MiniMgV for the same buck. I don't mind the patchcord philosophy and 9 oscillators and all the other multitude of modules can by far create fatter and more subtly shaded sounds than any Mini - even if some modules do not work perfect... in technically all over or nit picking sense.

Finally I don't agree that MMV2 is unusable. It may be if you expect it to be perfect or meet original specs but I guess the real M wasn't perfect either...

I hope Origin will be a great success - if I had the money I'd be for sure around the corner to get one - but 'til then the MMV2 should do also.
Title: Re: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: Sweep on August 28, 2008, 11:08:52 pm
Great. Have fun with it.

When Wendy Carlos had her modular delivered, she was looking at the modules and working out what could be done with them even as the synth was being assembled. :D

Most of us aren't like that, though, and like you said it's a complex instrument. `One serious piece of gear' (or words similar to that) was how one very experienced synth player described the Arturia MMV to me.

I think one of the best ways to get to know it is to explore the patches that are supplied with it. Fiddle about with them and work out what modules and settings are doing what to the sound. That's a luxury we have with the Arturia that the early synth pioneers didn't have.

I'm continually surprised by the things it's good at - things like bells and chimes, for example, which programs like FM8 should do better, in theory. I find myself returning to the MMV for specific sounds and a specific character to the tone.
Title: Re: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: mikehuckaby on November 04, 2008, 10:30:02 am
how many of these bugs have been fixed since this post.

mike
Title: Re: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: jcotner on November 11, 2008, 05:50:48 am
Hey gang I posted the comment about a year ago that I got from Arturia regarding no updates planned to MMV2. Thought I'd log in and see if anything has changed and it has not, sad to say.
I will say I haven't fired up MMV2 since last year and spend all of my soft synth time in the Native Instruments world. This is not any sort of commercial for them, but I used Komplete Synths constantly and don't have any of the annoying "GotChas" that seem to bite me while using MMV2. MMV2 could be so much more if the bugs were addressed and I would think that in itself would generate enough new sales for Arturia to justify the development time to clean MMV2 up.  Oh well, I guess it's a nice dream. See you folks next year and it's back to the NI world for me. BTW I thought Yamaha was the US distributor for Arturia but I find no mention of their products whatsoever, except for a 2005 dated press release saying Yamaha was distributing them. Wonder if this has gone by the wayside also.
Title: Re: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: porfiry on July 13, 2009, 02:14:49 am
I've got to say, I wish I'd read this thread before spending even the reduced $99 price on MMV. I was super excited about getting this software, I've been super excited about patching it like a freak, and I've even been excited about the few sounds I've gotten out of it.

That said, it is indeed a bit of a turd bugwise...I'll be patching away, getting to something really cool, and all of a sudden the sound just stops. I have to quit my host (Live) and reopen to do anything again. Wow, usable! Or I'll have something patched and try to save it in a preset slot, and after the save the sound has totally changed. What a great feature! These bugs are mentioned earlier in this thread, and obviously still have not been fixed in fricking 2009. Super, I love throwing money away.

So I read this thread, and we have this guy Sweep, who I have to wonder if he's the only Arturia employee who's showed up here, trying desperately to debunk the OP's meticulously documented and obviously repeatable issues.  Yeah, Sweep ol' buddy, I'm sure total sound dropouts were a hallmark of the original modular Mgs. You'd patch it up, it'd stop making sound altogether and then you'd have to dismantle and rebuild it from scratch. This software really IS just like the real thing! ::)

I didn't buy this thing to surf presets, I bought it to learn the basics of modular synthery. It has a lot of potential, sounds very Mgy, and is somewhat useful on the most basic level, until you're going along and it quirks out on you. Really quite sad; it's really the most unique softsynth available in a way. It does something that the rest don't do. Just not very well.

Since I bought it on sale and registered it I supposed I'm a bit screwed on returning it...lesson learned I guess. Certainly about Arturia. First and last one of their synths I'll bother with. Meanwhile I'll stick with the very stable and functional Zebra2 and Operator, and save my dollars for a rack of Synth Tech or Synthesizers.com modules.
Title: Re: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: Antoine on July 13, 2009, 10:50:38 am
Okay, time for an intervention.  ::)

Please remember these forums are *not* an ARTURIA developers blog, but really a users community place. You won't have real-time information on MMV2 bugs resolution or day-per-day new features implementation. These informations are to be released through an elementary marketing process.
The MMV, as its cousins, currently is under heavy work, and most of the bugs here listed are being corrected if not already. I have no more accurate information yet from the Developers Crypt.

I understand your impatience, but things are not magical and demand severe development. The few bugs you encounter cannot prevent you from serious audio works with the MMV; and just as the venerable analogue Mg System 55, you can workaround most of them.

Glad to learn you have pleasure with the NI stuff, as they make sympathetic software synthesizers, and there is place enough for all talents in the musical editors industry.
Contrarily to hardware ones, software synths are constantly evolving, and if the MMV still have bugs (pretty like the NI synths, if you deeply dive into their guts) they are being corrected version after version.

By the way, Sweep is *not* an ARTURIA employee, but an enthusiast user that does not stay locked on minor issues, and who shares his experience and advices in a positive and constructive attitude, even if he encounters the same minor issues as you do.

My words might sound a bit rude, but you started first after all. Please see no offense here, just firm but friendly elements of response.   :)

Keep up the good vibrations,
Antoine.
Title: Re: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: porfiry on July 13, 2009, 02:48:45 pm
a) I think you have me confused with the original poster

b) "You won't have real-time information on MMV2 bugs resolution or day-per-day new features implementation."

Super, but this thread is nearing THREE years old, and as the OP stated, the bugs he listed had already existed for years at that point. You're the first employee of the company who's shown up here in all that time, as this thread has sat here getting 14,500 views. Responsive!

c) "I understand your impatience, but things are not magical and demand severe development. The few bugs you encounter cannot prevent you from serious audio works with the MMV; and just as the venerable analogue Mg System 55, you can workaround most of them."

Yes, this thing definitely does demand severe development, and no one expects magic - just working software, preferably in a shorter timeframe than 4...5...6...7....? years. And I can't work around a total crashout that causes me to restart my host. I didn't buy the thing to only be able to use it as a standalone.

Glad that the company seems to have finally hired someone to do damage control, and I hope that your claims of current work on MMV are legit. I can't speak for everyone here, but I really do want the software to work, because I feel like it's potentially great, just not in the current iteration. It would be swell if you'd come in here and update everyone on the status when you talk to the developers.
Title: Re: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: Sweep on July 13, 2009, 04:47:04 pm
Thanks, Antoine, for clarifying that I'm not an Arturia employee.  I think it's a measure of the damage Elhardt's complaints have done that people assume someone who speaks well of the MMV must be a company employee.

To recap, once again, Kenneth Elhardt has pontificated at great length about the shortcomings of the MMV as a substitute for the original hardware Mg modular, but it's been established at the Mg forums and elsewhere that he has no experience of the Mg modular whatsoever.

He's put great effort, as always, into listing what he regards as major issues, while being oblivious to the massive problems people had with the original Mg modular.

Yes, there are bugs, but most of them make little practical difference to playing this instrument. The ones that do, in common with some of the other Arturia products, tend to be interface problems with third party software. While I sympathise with Porfiry's problems, and would try to help if I was using the MMV in the same environment he's using it in, it's clear from his second post that the dropouts and so forth that he reports happen when the MMV is run in conjunction with other software. Regarding the statement that he didn't buy the MMV to only use as a standalone, I take the point being made - but I'd also point out that the original Mg modular was precisely a standalone in most instances.

What I'm getting at is that most of the bugs reported of the MMV are relatively minor and speaking as a musician I'd say they're not outlandish considering the complexity of the instrument and the shortcomings of the original. The more serious bugs tend to be interface issues with other software not written by Arturia. Some of that software may be quite widely used, so the problems do need to be sorted, but none of this amounts to the MMV being unuseable or severely limited.

I honestly wish there were a lot more Mg modulars around. Then people might realise you can't just walk up to one of these things and sound like Wendy Carlos or Keith Emerson. You can't usually run it with sequencing software, either.

The MMV is an instrument with a lot of potential and a few niggles. This topic would imply that it barely works at all and falls over at the slightest opportunity. That simply isn't true. As I've said before, the real test of whether it works is music made with it, and it definitely does make music. I've got music on my website to prove it. In all the time I've been using it, it's only crashed once - when someone who'd worked with Harald Bode told me how he'd configured a new design of hardware, and I tried to emulate that on the only instrument I had that was capable of the same kind of setup, the MMV, which crashed due to problems inherent in all software. Any software would have crashed at that point, but the MMV was the only software even capable of the experiment.

If the early synth pioneers who struggled with the Mg modular had expected easy results, we would never have had Switched on Bach, or Tarkus, or whatever.

The reason I keep stessing this is because I think it would be a tragic loss to music if instruments like the MMV got such an undeserved reputation that musicians didn't try to get to grips with them. The MMV is much easier to get to grips with than an early hardware synth, and rewards the musician much more readily. But it seems those of us who are making music with the MMV and similar instruments have to prove a point, just as the first wave of synth pioneers did.

Maybe if everyone started with a VCS3 and a totally baffling second-hand mixing desk, as I did many years ago, the beauties of the MMV would be more apparent.
Title: Re: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: Koshdukai on February 09, 2011, 05:49:01 pm
Oscillators
-----------

(1) An osc has a total of 4 exponential modulation inputs, two on the osc and two on the osc controller.  Connecting an audio rate osc or noise source into any one of those causes 3 of them to stop working.  This is one of the most major module bugs in MMV.

(2) The sinewave can't hard/soft sync.

(3) Can't hard/soft sync more than one osc to the same source osc.  Trying to do so keeps one osc sort of sync'd and the other not sync'd, with both making strange clicking sounds depending on their frequency settings.

(4) The second PWM nut improperly displays the setting of the first PWM nut when turned, so it can never be set numerically accurate.

(5) Saving a patch with an osc bank set to LFO mode may not get you the same sound when loaded back into the synth.  In my case a polyphonic patch plays only intermittent monophonic notes.  I have a set of patches that only work correctly after I manually cycle through the K1,K2,K3,K4,No setting back to the LFO setting after I load them.

(Poor Design Issues).  The pulse width knob also changes the triangle and sawtooth waves into other waveforms.  Unfortunately Arturia put the sawtooth wave at the leftmost position, and the triangle and square waves at the rightmost position.  So you can't get sawtooth (at the proper pitch) and triangle and square waves at the same time from an osc bank.  Mixing waveforms together on an osc is common, and when standard waveforms like sawtooth and triangle change into other waveforms as the pulsewidth is changed, it's annoying and requires bringing in another osc bank and syncing it to the first, using more oscs to acheive what should be done with just one.  Those other waveforms aren't even very useful.  Turning the pulsewidth knob gives you a hardsync'd sawtooth waveform, something that can already be done by simply syncing one osc to another.


Had to check this list to see if the bug I'm experiencing was already known before MMV2.5

btw, thank you very much for this, Elhardt, despite some of the posts here, I would say that I consider almost all of the points you mention as valid and good suggestions when not considered by some as plain bugs. The advantage of having a *reliable* virtual representation of the unreliable hardware version is exactly to increase it's usefulness and ease of use and understanding when it doesn't clashes with the original. Looking at all the other Arturia's virtual instruments, I guess this embrace and extend philosophy is one of the driving factors when spec designing the emulations, and by many, expected also with MMV, IMHO.


...anyway, enough blabbing about concepts, let's talk about bugs:


I'm having trouble getting any sane signal out of Square and Triangle outs of OSC1 on some patches that initially were saved using Saw or Sine, for instance.

So, loading Template_wav - Saw, and connecting Square to the Filter instead of Saw, I get no sound. Doing the same with Sine works fine, but Triangle also makes no sound or sometimes a quick crackling on note trigger.

Taking the filter out of the audio path, just to be sure, connecting OSC1 directly to VCA1 makes no difference on getting Square and Triangle to work, but Saw and Sine still works fine.

If I change to a Square based preset, then I have to problems going through those steps described above, getting audio out of all the OSC1 waveshape outs. So Sine, Triangle, Square and Saw, all work fine this time.


Am I doing something wrong or forgetting some obvious step, wire or knob setting when starting with tha Saw template or is this a bug ?

I'll try doing a screen capture video about this, if this can't be reproduced or explaind by others.
Title: Re: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: Koshdukai on February 09, 2011, 09:56:25 pm
ok, found *my* problem :P ...driver's width was at 0.00 on that particular preset... the one I was using as the starting point ::)

oops, should've watched more closed at that knob value/position ;D
Title: Re: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: arturiadontbug on January 05, 2014, 03:13:56 pm
The manual says you can click on a cable to select it and press the delete key to delete it.  Wrong, the manual also lies. 

This is still in the latest manual, and as far as I can tell, still doesn't work. It'd be nice if it did. If it's not meant to work after all, what is the use of being able to select the cables by clicking on them?
Also, deleting the cables via the right-click menu could be improved too. Currently the "remove connection" option removes all connections to that socket. There's no way to remove a specific single connection. A better system, I think, would be if the "remove connection" option was removed, and the (currently inactive) options listing the cable destinations "Connected to ..." could be changed to "Delete connection to ...". Then individual cables could be removed easily. Edit: This is what the manual says should work too...
Another thing that would be useful in that menu would be something identifying the actual socket clicked on. Knobs can be hovered over to show a tooltip with the name of the knob, but there's nothing to easily identify the sockets.
But as this thread is ancient, and so is the MMV, really, is there any hope of things like this ever being fixed?

Edit: Apparently the delete-key-to-remove-cable /does/ work sometimes. My host was catching the keypress. It doesn't work in the stand-alone version either though, so that must be catching it too.
Title: Re: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: shaman on January 19, 2014, 06:28:57 am
Wow, fantastic someone took the time to list all these issues. Thank you!

Came up here to see if my issue was known - amazingly first reported in 2006 here and still not fixed?

>>(1) Polyphonic patches plagued with clicking/popping noises on their attacks.

Hard to understand why more people aren't seriously complaining about this as it's so obvious and stops me from using Modular V in poly mode - a real shame as the little I've tried in poly it sounds great otherwise. Maybe a faster CPU would help? I've an 8 year old L7 Core Duo chip. Maybe others aren't complaining b/c they've faster chips that obviates this bug / design issue?
Title: Re: Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs...Massive MMV2 Bug List
Post by: arturiadontbug on January 31, 2014, 04:30:08 pm
I get pops even in mono mode... Try just connecting a triangle or sine oscillator output straight into the output VCA, and set attack to 0. The strange thing is that sometimes it happens on every note press, sometimes it only happens on a "new" note, and further presses on the same note don't click, and sometimes it doesn't happen at all...
I don't have the fastest machine either, but even set to poly with all the effects enabled, it doesn't use that much CPU, so I don't think it can be that simple.

A couple more things not in the initial list:
Sync connectors on oscillators look like normal signal connectors rather than trigger-type connectors, when they are unconnected anyway. When connected they look correct.
Signal outputs can be dragged into trigger-type inputs, creating useless "fake" connections. Clicking on the input shows it's connected to "[2]" or some other number depending on what you dragged to it.