Arturia Forums
Controllers => KeyLab MkII => KeyLab MkII - Technical issues => Topic started by: bostonsynth on March 12, 2020, 12:22:33 pm
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I am aware that you can adjust the curve for velocity regarding the pads (linear/expo, etc) but I cannot figure out how to adjust the velocity curve for the keybed itself. It's quite a critical setting that I expected to find on a premium product like the MKII but I can't find it in the MIDI manager.
Is there a setting on the keyboard to adjust the velocity curve for the keys? I assume that most users will at some point, play the keys for something and not just the pads after buying this. :) I can't imagine not having basic velocity control over the keybed outside of a software plugin solution. Thank you!
I'm a pianist and so often times I play what feels naturally soft and gentle and the keys literally don't register a velocity let alone a note. Stumped.
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Didn't you at least already check the manual? ::) I don't even own the product yet it was still the first place I looked, and got an answer in section 8.10
http://downloads.arturia.com/products/keylab-49-mkII/manual/keylab-mk2_Manual_1_0_0_EN.pdf
No one should feel frightened of asking any question no matter how simple, but honestly it took less time to find the answer in the manual than you will have spent typing the question...
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You misunderstood. I know those settings. I'm asking for more because those 3 options don't provide a usable range for all applications. Those are "presets" for velocity essentially.
They aren't working for my application so I figured I post and ask what others can do to work around this.
Thanks for your comment though. I appreciate you taking the time to leave it.
Didn't you at least already check the manual? ::) I don't even own the product yet it was still the first place I looked, and got an answer in section 8.10
http://downloads.arturia.com/products/keylab-49-mkII/manual/keylab-mk2_Manual_1_0_0_EN.pdf
No one should feel frightened of asking any question no matter how simple, but honestly it took less time to find the answer in the manual than you will have spent typing the question...
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And for the record too, I too believe that the pads are just not responsive in the right way, regardless of velocity configurations. It's all over the web. Using plugins and third party hacks in your DAW to scale and adjust the velocity response for the pads. That was a disappointment. I wish I had tested them more prior. That's my fault.
I hope a firmware update comes along before another year passes with new features and goodies. This controller is too good to not make perfect. :)
(I refuse to think Arturia will just ignore this)
Didn't you at least already check the manual? ::) I don't even own the product yet it was still the first place I looked, and got an answer in section 8.10
http://downloads.arturia.com/products/keylab-49-mkII/manual/keylab-mk2_Manual_1_0_0_EN.pdf
No one should feel frightened of asking any question no matter how simple, but honestly it took less time to find the answer in the manual than you will have spent typing the question...
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You misunderstood. I know those settings. I'm asking for more because those 3 options don't provide a usable range for all applications. Those are "presets" for velocity essentially.
I didn't really misunderstand, your post said "Is there a setting on the keyboard to adjust the velocity curve for the keys", so that's what I answered, not "is there a setting other than lin/log/exp", which unfortunately would be no.
And for the record too, I too believe that the pads are just not responsive in the right way, regardless of velocity configurations.
Agreed. On the original keylab there is an option to configure the minimum and maximum value each pad will trigger, so that for example you don't have to whack them with a force of 10,000 suns just to get a velocity of 100+ out of them. The keyboard and pads also each have have 11 assignable velocity and aftertouch curves. It's crazy that the mkII lost so much configurability.
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Agreed. On the original keylab there is an option to configure the minimum and maximum value each pad will trigger, so that for example you don't have to whack them with a force of 10,000 suns just to get a velocity of 100+ out of them. The keyboard and pads also each have have 11 assignable velocity and aftertouch curves. It's crazy that the mkII lost so much configurability.
In theory though it is possible for a fix like that to be pushed via firmware, correct? If they decide do. I believe this is true.
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Technically it's possible. The hardware is capable, they just removed the functionalities from the firmware. I couldn't speculate why.
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Technically it's possible. The hardware is capable, they just removed the functionalities from the firmware. I couldn't speculate why.
Thank you.
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Technically it's possible. The hardware is capable, they just removed the functionalities from the firmware. I couldn't speculate why.
The more virtual instruments I try, the more I realize how badly the velocity is on the MKII. I'm hitting with moderate pressure and simply the keys are registering at barely 1-3 velocity values. It's borderline unusable unless you hack it in a third party application like Cantabile and set minimum velocity triggers with workarounds. This controller is not able to stand on its own for real world use. It needs other software to augment it's shortcomings. I just can't believe this. Very disappointing. Everything else about this controller is amazing. Can't understand this decision. I know for everyone with my opinion all over the web, there will be many others who come running to blame the end user and defend this gear but, it is what it is. Oh well. Been doing this for over 30 years. Never seen a hyper-responsive over reactive yet untweakable controller like this ever before. Terribly inconsistent across pads and keys.
The MIDI monitor in Kontakt even shows that incoming velocity at a normal pressure that ANYone would assume is sufficient, shows up as velocity of 1 (if it triggers at all). Sometimes I may get lucky and get a velocity of 10. MIDI OX shows the same after extensive testing. Unreal. Borderline unplayable for real time MIDI input, real frustrating. Requires extensive MIDI editing after input. Imagine playing with reasonable pressure like you have been doing for 30 years on 100s of keyboards, only to find a velocity of 10, usually lower. The 3 "curves" settings do nothing to change this other than slightly. Maybe 3-5 values difference. I'd be happy to show proof of this, it's not user error. It's a hardware or firmware failure. The data doesn't lie. :)
My goal with this thread now, seeing as how there's nothing we can do about it, is to at least inform other professional working musicians who seek a midi controller for their studio: be careful with this if you want real time input for orchestrating. You WILL have to do extensive MIDI editing in your piano roll, tweak velocities, and worst of all, you will not be always able to hear or get tactile responses to key presses if you play "too realistically" like you can on a piano or higher end controller.
With the Keylab MKII, you have to tailor your entire playing style and preferences to the controller. It does not adapt to you. This is the problem.
If you can live with that, this is a great piece of kit.
I wish Arturia would look at this and update it.
(cue all the happy people who love the MKII) 8) ;D
Have a nice day :)
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Do you think yours just might be faulty? I have the mk1 and most of the time I have the opposite problem, ie it's too easy to trigger maximum velocity, especially on the black keys.
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Do you think yours just might be faulty? I have the mk1 and most of the time I have the opposite problem, ie it's too easy to trigger maximum velocity, especially on the black keys.
It's possible now that I reconsider. There is no way that it's too easy to trigger max velocity, I'd rather have that problem lol. So funny we have opposites. I bought my Keylab online, so Arturia probably won't be able to help me right? I have to go through the online vendor for returns? :( Not looking forward to that. What would you do? My black keys literally NEVER trigger unless I HAMMER them, and I mean, hammer. It sure seems like a QC problem. Thank you for helping.
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Maybe one final thing you could try is a firmware reset:
- Turn off the KeyLab mkII using the power switch on the back of the unit
- Press and hold Oct+ and Oct- buttons, and while holding them depressed...
- Turn the power switch back on, wait a second or two and release the Oct+ and Oct- buttons.
- The LCD screen will display a factory reset message.
If the problems persist after that, I'd definitely agree you have a faulty unit and you should return it. There's no way you should need to beat the keys just to get maximum velocity out of them. It probably varies from country to country, but in my territory (UK), the vendor, whether a physical shop or online store, is responsible for dealing with returns of faulty goods. Check your own distance selling regulations.
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I just love making my first post on a forum a reply to a somewhat outdated thread, but this could easily have been me. I was hoping the OP, bostonsynth, had found a solution. I can hit them without too much out of the ordinary force and get the velocity into the 40's, but hitting 80-100 takes a good bit of force. I swear I do not remember having this issue over a year ago when it was new.
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Dear all,
I also find that the 3 velocity settings are ridiculous. As a piano player, I cannot play with this thing, everything sounds jumpy and crappy.
We've sent men to the moon, but we cannot make a velocity curve?
Did anyone find any solution or a plug-in to ammend this?
I also had an m-audio oxygen and the "Default" curve is just perfect.
Best
Bruno
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We've sent men to the moon, but we cannot make a velocity curve?
To be fair the mk1 had adjustable velocity curve, it's just the mk2 where certain customizing functionalities have been removed. No idea why!
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Hello lovely citizens of Arturia.
I too am having trouble with the pads. I really have to mash on them to get a consistent drumming sound, and often it seems like I'm missing the drums. But it's because I'm not hitting them very hard. After a couple of minutes I'm really feeling it in my finger tips. I haven't had this issue on other midi controllers.
I hope they can fix this with a firmware update soon otherwise I may end up returning it which stinks because I love the keylab mkii otherwise.
Thanks for posting about this issue, maybe if enough of us chime in they'll notice it.
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I confirm having the same problem from day 1. It doesn't seem to be that critical with Piano V app (gets to 30-40 velocity with normal effort), but in ableton I only see <20 velocity. Which is for sure not a usable output :(
Is there any update on resolving the issue?
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Hello guys and girls,
I thought I was alone in this world having this velocity problem. I've spent two months pulling my hair and trying to figure out why is this happening.
I cannot believe an 800€ keyboard lacks the basic and elemental thing of proper velocity.
In this link you can find a comparison between my KeyLab 88 MKII and a Casio Privia. I would appreciate your answer whether this is happening to you too.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/32x4az2jcclouyk/AAC3LvNYNhG1CKI98VraWBgfa?dl=0
I sent my keyboard to Arturia, France, so they could fix the velocity issue, and apparently, this awful and useless velocity response is "normal behaviour". On a 800€ Keyboard?? Seriously?
I've done lots of tests and PADS work fine on my Keyboard(regarding velocity sensitivity, they can reproduce all 127 values), but the Fatar Keybed is completely useless if you want to play decently.
If anyone has landed in this forum thinking about buying a KeyLab, forget about it, honestly.
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Hi,
I just wanted to make a post as I've had a similar issue where I really have to hit way harder on the keys than I'd like to hit maximum velocity.
Arturia support have said that they are working on improving the options for velocity but with no timeframe given.
I've managed to adjust this myself so wanted to share my findings in case it helps anyone else who may stuble across this page.
1. Download and install 'LoopBe1 Monitor' and 'MIDI Velocity Curve Changer by Trobettworks'
2. Make sure your DAW or anything else that might use the keyboard is closed
3. Start LoopBe1 Monitor
4. Start the Velocity program, configure the curve as you like and set the inputs and outputs (see attached screenshot)
5. Now start your DAW (has to be started after you've started the above programs)
6. This step may be different depening on your DAW, I use Ableton (V10) and custom scripting for Ableton device control when in USER mode.I've attached a screenshot of my settings, note that the 'KeyLab mkII' is the usual control surface and 'Keylab Mkii' is my custom user script. I know one of the inputs is in red but with it setup like this everything is working great, ANALOG LAB mode works and I'm able to browse instruments as normal, DAW mode works and I'm able to do anything DAW related and USER mode works great for Ableton Device Control. All pads etc work as intended.
I'm very new to all this but I hope this may help someone who's in the same situation.
Edit - I could probably mess with the DAW settings to get rid of that red input but it's all working so I'm leaving it as it is.
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Hi everyone!
There should be an update soon that should please most of your request.
Stay tuned!
Cheers!
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Hi everyone!
An new update is coming very soon!
In it, you can use a customizable velocity curve and also set it as a global setting to use on all Memory Slots, like Analog Lab or DAW mode.
Stay tuned!
Best !
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Hi everyone!
An new update is coming very soon!
In it, you can use a customizable velocity curve and also set it as a global setting to use on all Memory Slots, like Analog Lab or DAW mode.
Stay tuned!
Best !
As a person ready to order a Keylab MKII (until I started reading this thread), this is great news. The manual refers to a "Custom" velocity option...but only for the keys. Is that correct (it is NOT available for the pads)?
From the manual:
Custom Velocity Curve: Here you can select from preset velocity curves or use the following
5 parameters to define a Custom Velocity Curve:
• Min Velocity: This is the value sent when playing the keyboard as soft as possible
and defaults to a value of 1.
• Piano Velocity: This is an intermediate level and its default value is 12.
• Mezzo Velocity: This is an intermediate level and its default value is 42.
• Forte Velocity: This is an intermediate level and its default value is 95.
• Max Velocity: This is the level sent when playing the keyboard as hard as
possible and its default value is 127 .
My question is, can the above default values be changed to ANY value. Two examples:
1) Could all 5 default settings be set to the same value to create a "fixed" velocity...or is there a range limit for each of the 5 parameters?
2) As a relatively new keyboard player, I find a "limited" velocity curve helps me with recording levels. Is it possible to set the lowest velocity to something like 60, and set the highest velocity to around 90. That would allow some limited expression/dynamics.
Thanks for your help!
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A common way to accomplish what you want in item (2) is to record with a full scale of velocities, and apply a compressor effect. You can then adjust it as much as you want to make it sound good (bringing the quiet sounds up and the louder sounds down as needed). I think it almost always helps to use compression, in any case, and this is a very common reason.
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Is it possible to make "Custom" velocity option for pads too? I became an owner of 61 MKII keyboard. It' s great and I like it! But the pads are a bit tight. More important is not all the pads take the same amount of pressure to generate the same amount of velocity. There are few very tight pads. It's +/- normal I suppose but I want to rise the lower floor of velocity for all the pads, more than using a "log" setting of velocity. In other words, it would be cool to have the custom option for pads too, separate from the keys.
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I just got this keyboard and, like many others, am highly disappointed in the velocity response.
The ability to create a custom curve makes it so that those velocities are the ONLY (give or take) velocities that are output:
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I just got this keyboard and, like many others, am highly disappointed in the velocity response.
The ability to create a custom curve makes it so that those velocities are the ONLY (give or take) velocities that are output:
I agree. I like the keyboard but the only velocity I can work with is "Custom". Lin - I am just afraid to break the keyboard ;D Log - is more useful but still a bit quiet. Fixed is a good choice for specific tasks, when Custom - is the only choice you can be happy with. It is not only the issue with Arturia keyboards I think, my previous keyboard (with Fatar weighted keys) had the same issue. So, just use the Custom setting:)
But Pads should have the custom setting too, separate from keys. Please, Arturia!