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Software Instruments => ARP2600 V3 => Topic started by: ady on January 03, 2020, 09:42:33 pm

Title: Can it be done on THIS ARP 2600
Post by: ady on January 03, 2020, 09:42:33 pm
Hi Guys,

Attached you can hear a preset I made in TimewARP 2600. But TimewARP is *very* unstable and I don't want use it anymore.

So I tried t make the same preset in the ARP2600 V3 and boys, I can't do it!

Can any of you do it?

In case you are interested the patch is essentially the same as was used by the Commodores in Machine Gun. It is VERY funky indeed! :) :) :)

Best Regards

Adrian 
Title: Re: Can it be done on THIS ARP 2600
Post by: LBH on January 03, 2020, 11:43:16 pm
Hi and welcome to Arturia forums.

It would be useful to post a screenshot of the sound.

But why should'nt it be possible to create a Arturia version of something like that, if timewarp can?

I suggest you download Arturias ARP2600 V3 and try it out for your self in demo mode.
Title: Re: Can it be done on THIS ARP 2600
Post by: drumpilot on February 28, 2020, 03:49:58 am
Hey Adrian,

I attached a clip of my rendition of the patch. That is a seriously funky tune!

Thanks,
Jeff 
Title: Re: Can it be done on THIS ARP 2600
Post by: ady on February 28, 2020, 09:40:57 am
Hi Jeff, thanks for having a crack. You got yourself to the same general area that I did. What is missing is the nasality.

I think the fundamental problem is the filters. The real 2600s came out with different filters on them over the years - there was a Moogy/ladder filter on the early models and then Mogg sued so ARP put on a different filter of their own. I have asked Arturia to make both types available on the ARP 2600 V3(V4?) and they have said they will. We'll see if they do it.
Title: Re: Can it be done on THIS ARP 2600
Post by: MajorFubar on February 28, 2020, 12:38:24 pm
One of the biggest differences between any two analog synths always was the filters, because let's face it there's not an awful lot of scope for making the raw unprocessed waveforms sound different from one synth to another, a square wave is a square wave etc. Unfortunately this is where Arturia's synths come a bit unstuck because synths like the Mini V, Modular V, 2600 V, CS80 V all seem to be built around the same fundamental building blocks (TAE) with features refined to suit each synth, and consequently they all share a similar house sound even though in real life they did not. This is most obvious with the CS80 V, which don't get me wrong is a nice sounding versatile VST, but nothing about it sounds really like a CS80.
Title: Re: Can it be done on THIS ARP 2600
Post by: drumpilot on February 28, 2020, 01:47:41 pm
What is missing is the nasality.

Ah yeah, I see what you mean. Might have try it again using the HP filter instead of LP 12.
Title: Re: Can it be done on THIS ARP 2600
Post by: ady on February 28, 2020, 05:04:56 pm
One of the biggest differences between any two analog synths always was the filters, because let's face it there's not an awful lot of scope for making the raw unprocessed waveforms sound different from one synth to another, a square wave is a square wave etc. Unfortunately this is where Arturia's synths come a bit unstuck because synths like the Mini V, Modular V, 2600 V, CS80 V all seem to be built around the same fundamental building blocks (TAE) with features refined to suit each synth, and consequently they all share a similar house sound even though in real life they did not. This is most obvious with the CS80 V, which don't get me wrong is a nice sounding versatile VST, but nothing about it sounds really like a CS80.

Yes, I have noticed this too. In the case of the ARP 2600 V3 it is "nicer" than the original. It has all the rough edges sanded off. It's a good synth, but I have to say the TimewARP came a lot closer. The problem with the TW is it keeps falling over...and taking the DAW with it!

Arturia, we beg you, please emulate the "nasty/grindy" filters of the original(s) :)

Adrian 
Title: Re: Can it be done on THIS ARP 2600
Post by: drumpilot on March 02, 2020, 01:41:36 pm
This is about as close as I could get to it.
Title: Re: Can it be done on THIS ARP 2600
Post by: ady on March 02, 2020, 03:25:47 pm
Drumpilot THAT is much closer! It's better than my best effort! Well done Sir

Would you be so kind as to post the preset file so I can see what you did?

Adrian
Title: Re: Can it be done on THIS ARP 2600
Post by: LBH on March 02, 2020, 07:29:31 pm
Attached you can hear a preset I made in TimewARP 2600.
Again - why don't you post a screenshot of the sound? How have you created the sound in TimewARP?
Title: Re: Can it be done on THIS ARP 2600
Post by: drumpilot on March 03, 2020, 12:17:02 am
Thanks! Sure, here it is.
Title: Re: Can it be done on THIS ARP 2600
Post by: ady on March 03, 2020, 11:39:14 am
Again - why don't you post a screenshot of the sound? How have you created the sound in TimewARP?
[/quote]

Hi LBH,

Actually, I thought I had posted a screenshot when you first raised the idea. But looking back I realise I didn't. I probably messed up the upload.
Anyway, here is the screenshot. 
Title: Re: Can it be done on THIS ARP 2600
Post by: LBH on March 03, 2020, 10:50:28 pm
Again - why don't you post a screenshot of the sound? How have you created the sound in TimewARP?

Hi LBH,

Actually, I thought I had posted a screenshot when you first raised the idea. But looking back I realise I didn't. I probably messed up the upload.
Anyway, here is the screenshot.
[/quote]
Hi Ady,

The screenshot you posted is'nt the sound from your soundfile.

On your screenshot we in example see:
1. there is nothing that open the gate to get sound. No envelopes no mothing. The VCA is even routed to the mixers VCF input, so there is'nt any sound at all with the screenshot settings alone.
2. only a single Pulse waveform from a single OSC is used, that even is ring modulate by it self. So the ring modulator should not produce that change to the Pulse waveform we hear in the soundfile.
3. only the ring modulator is going through the filter, - beside a Sine waveform, that does'nt have any level and thus produce no sound.

There is no way, that the sound you posted in your soundfile is produced by the screenshots settings alone. What else is going on to produce that sound, if you actually have produced it with timewARP.

Arturias ARP 2600 can produce many funky sounds, but i doubt this excact one is one of them. And with that screenshot it also look like it's not a pure sound from any other ARP 2600 either.

But you got a free funky Arturia ARP 2600 sound, and a free lesson in sound design with it.

If you have ňosted the wrong screenshot, then please post the correct one. As it is, i don't believe you have produced the sound in your soundfile - at least not in timewARP alone.
Title: Re: Can it be done on THIS ARP 2600
Post by: ady on March 04, 2020, 11:43:53 am
LBH, I am hoping it is that English is your second language and not your attitude that makes your post seem so aggressive. I do not need a free funky sound, I have a million, and I don't need a free lesson in sound design either.

I attach a video in the hope that you and the other readers of this post can see I am here on this forum in *good faith*.
Sorry for the poor quality, the size limit on attachments prevents me from posting a better one.

Regards

Adrian
Title: Re: Can it be done on THIS ARP 2600
Post by: ady on March 04, 2020, 12:42:27 pm
Drumpilot THAT is much closer! It's better than my best effort! Well done Sir

Would you be so kind as to post the preset file so I can see what you did?

Adrian

Drumpilot, I have played around with your preset and the only improvement I have been able to make is to increase the release time on the amplifier. You have been very helpful to me making this sound and I can tell you like funky bass sounds in general, so I will explain an interesting thing I have learned about them.

If you check out lessons on how to make funky synth bass sounds they will often tell you to set the amp release to zero. The idea behind this is that you will get a sharp end to the note, and this will add to the rhythmic quality and the overall tightness of the playing. But, I have found that there are occasions when this is not so, and this preset as used in Machine Gun, is an example.

We can tell that the release has been extended in Machine Gun because at a couple of points in the song we get a repeated note. Listen at 0.51, for exmple. The notes blur into each other. If you make set of repeats (or use the ARP's repeat function, I believe), you will find you get that blurring only by extending the release.

So, this leads us to a question, what happens to a funky bass sound when we extend the release like that? Does it get less exciting, or more exciting?
I think it depends a good deal on what is being played, but in certain settings it seems to me to add to the sense of "weight" of the sound. It's like the ear is saying to us "this note is so heavy, it doesn't stop - even when we hit the ground". 
Just my mad idea about how to think of these things.

For a really good explanation of how to make old school funky bass sounds check out this video by Alex Ball
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkY-kVCUuWA&t=356s,
he really shows us how to max out that funky vibe! He also has one on the real ARP 2600...

Best Regards

Adrian
Title: Re: Can it be done on THIS ARP 2600
Post by: drumpilot on March 05, 2020, 03:35:39 am
Hey Ady, yeah that's a good idea adding some release. I cranked it up on the ADSR to 880.0 ms and you get some nice longer notes when you play really short keyboard strokes. Also, I think there was too much portamento so I lowered it to .60. It's a blast messing around with all the variables involved in a patch. The possibilities are virtually endless.

I tried something similar to what was in your screenshot, but couldn't quite make it sound like what you were originally going for. Thanks for the video link. I'll check out more of his other videos too.

Regards,
Jeff
Title: Re: Can it be done on THIS ARP 2600
Post by: ady on March 05, 2020, 11:02:59 am
Hey Drumpilot!

See interpsersed.

Hey Ady, yeah that's a good idea adding some release. I cranked it up on the ADSR to 880.0 ms and you get some nice longer notes when you play really short keyboard strokes.

[Ady - Yes, it's really satisfying, is it not. You can sort of feel that weight]

Also, I think there was too much portamento so I lowered it to .60.

[Ady - Yes. I did that too. I forgot to say so. What I have found with portamento is that it has to jibe with the tempo of the song and the playing. The way I do it is I make the bass part and let it play and adjust the portamento on the fly until it is delivering just the right amount of "bendy".] 

 It's a blast messing around with all the variables involved in a patch. The possibilities are virtually endless.

[Adrian - Yes indeedy!! I think the Arturia ARP 2600 V3 is a superb synth. Despite owning all the others by Arturia, I always come back to it. My second fave is the Moog Modular. They just seems to hit the mark. It is just a pity the ARP can't quite do what the original did. Let's see where Arturia take it next. ] 

I tried something similar to what was in your screenshot, but couldn't quite make it sound like what you were originally going for.

[Adrian - Yes. That was my method. I found the TimewARP and the Arturia 2600 to be quite different. That is why I could not make the sound, and that was when I came here asking if better sound designers *could* do it.]

 Thanks for the video link. I'll check out more of his other videos too.

[Adrian - If you are song writer, you will find a lot of good stuff in his vids :) :). He is also a very pleasant man.]

Regards,
Jeff

[Have a great day :)]