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Author Topic: That SPARK Midi Problem. Simplified?  (Read 2054 times)

andrewbird

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That SPARK Midi Problem. Simplified?
« on: September 08, 2012, 07:42:19 pm »
Hi all.

Normally we can all insert a plug in into an instrument track, play notes in using that an external Midi/Usb keyboard or pad then notes will simply play back.

Spark doesn't respond like normal AU's do and we haven't been able to get it to play back.

I've done the suggested recabling in the Logic environment and also tried the IAC workaround with Standalone plug in.

Can anyone give me some simple steps to get the Spark plug in to play back in Logic?! Desperately trying to hit a release deadline this weekend and Spark has the best sounds for this. Any help would be appreciated.

Otherwise the engineer will laud NI Maschine over me (it worked in under 3 minutes!) for the rest of my life.


audiosculpture12

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Re: That SPARK Midi Problem. Simplified?
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2012, 01:09:06 am »
To say that spark cdm plugi/hardwaren is compatible with logic would be...somewhat bending the truth. I do not really understand how they can claim the plugin+hardware is compatible at this point though I wait hopefully for a template and update.  :(

« Last Edit: September 09, 2012, 01:11:37 am by audiosculpture12 »

vaikl

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Re: That SPARK Midi Problem. Simplified?
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2012, 02:00:23 am »
IMHO Arturia has some probs with the AU versions of Spark/Spark VDM. Support claims that some issues are due to "limitations of AU plugins" and recommends the VSTi versions instead.

I don't know where such "limitations" could be seen in the world of plugins, but maybe they wanted to say "We are working on it". ;)

andrewbird

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Re: That SPARK Midi Problem. Simplified?
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2012, 07:37:10 pm »
Well it never helps to be negative.
We ended up loading the spark samples into the EXS 24 to get the job done.

Probably illegal but these things can happen on a deadline!

I await tech assistance then I'll post back here:)


Kevin

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Re: That SPARK Midi Problem. Simplified?
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2012, 09:32:14 am »
Hi Andrew,
can you send me the support ticket number?

Kevin
Kevin
Soft Arturia

andrewbird

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Re: That SPARK Midi Problem. Simplified?
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2012, 03:47:10 pm »
Hey Kevin! Do you work for Arturia or are you just extremely kind man… or both!?
 
Ticket is 114549_TKOHUCEB

I was a little stressed when I wrote that but I have more time today to look into it.

I would love to be able to record ALL Spark* Midi info into Logic from the Spark Controller then just have it play back.

Via the AU plug in : Midi notes, Pattern select, FX and controllers will recorded into the sequencer but I can't get them playing, neither automations or sysex.

Thanks Legends. I did get the track finished after all and was well received by the Audio Library people!
 
Yup, I said "Allspark"… And I only liked the first and third Transformer movies.

Kevin

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Re: That SPARK Midi Problem. Simplified?
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2012, 04:02:39 pm »
Hey Kevin! Do you work for Arturia or are you just extremely kind man… or both!?

Both :P

Quote
Ticket is 114549_TKOHUCEB

Ok, I will check this.

Quote

I was a little stressed when I wrote that but I have more time today to look into it.

No problem. I can understand that you are not very happy the way it works now. I have to admit that I do not like it too. This is not an easy thing to make work a plugin into all the popular DAW (especially something like Spark). We will do our best to improve this in the future.

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I would love to be able to record ALL Spark* Midi info into Logic from the Spark Controller then just have it play back.

You don't have to record anything from Spark Controller into Logic. That's why you have to disable Spark Private In like it is explain in this tutorial.
Everything has to be recorded through parameter automations (except the pad and pattern select that are recorded through IAC as explained in this one).

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Via the AU plug in : Midi notes, Pattern select, FX and controllers will recorded into the sequencer but I can't get them playing, neither automations or sysex.

What do you mean exactly? Is the automation written in Logic track?

Quote
Thanks Legends. I did get the track finished after all and was well received by the Audio Library people!
Glad to read this :)
Kevin
Soft Arturia

andrewbird

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Re: That SPARK Midi Problem. Simplified?
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2012, 05:21:28 pm »
Thanks Kev, I will spend more time on this in a couple of days. Sorry we had to resample Spark kits to survive our first week with Spark.

Well in answer to one question, 18 years of studio and Midi use has taught us old schoolers to expect to plug in and record EVERYTHING coming from a Controller then Play EVERYTHING back straight out of the box including program/pattern changes and FX, just like our SH3 (CV), Deep Bass Nine, DX7, 1080s, Wavestations, EMU's… any and every external MIDI or USB synth or AU and VST plugs! 

I don't want to return her so: In future updates to Spark we really hope to
1) play, record then playback sounds as per usual by just plugging in the AU or VST to a channel
2) record and playback ALL pattern and FX changes (these are note and controller information)
3) reassign the COPY function so it's not on the Select/ERASE button!! (that's just a really silly  decision right there!)


It's such a beautifully made piece of kit and sounds great but i'm gutted about the experience as are many people over in other forums and studio's (in our building).
I hope I can educate them asap thanks Kev  and the track is called "Voltramax" over on my soundcloud.com/andrewbirduk (it's got 90's jokes innit)
 

andrewbird

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That SPARK Midi Problem in LOGIC. Simplified!!!
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2012, 06:20:23 pm »
Okay everyone. Kevin has recorded a tutorial video on this http://www.arturia.com/evolution/kb/?View=entry&EntryID=133
Although this has been covered in a few places, maybe i'll explain in a way that helps further. 

I now have Mini Notes recording AND Playing back (with a huge delay: fixable) in Spark and in addition to Kev's videos I hope i'm getting this workaround right:

IMPORTANT Software Update:
1)If you installed Spark from the CD then you need to update both the Plug In, Standalone AND the Library to the current version. The new version plug in contains new important Midi implementation.


Note: Spark installer will not install samples on an external drive. It went through the motions of writing files but the library was nowhere to be seen until I gave up and put it on my system drive (unhealthy/ slow). I assume I can move it on to the Ext SSD once installed.

2) Utilities (mac: Cmd+Shift+U) //
Open up the "Audio Midi Utility"
Double Click the IAC and instead of the default "Bus1", change it to "Spark1 Midi OUT" (caps sensitive). Click "Device Online". Exit. This will be saved.

3) Logic//
Environment (Cmd+8)/
Go to the drop down menu, "Click and Ports" top left
(Those connections are stupidly small!)
Re-cable the "Spark Private In" Connection to a "new instrument" to disable it.

4) Spark AU plugin//
find the preferences by clicking on the top right chevrons of the Spark plugin and clicking "preferences" bottom right of the sequencer window which just animated open.
Turn ON "Uses Spark1 Midi Out" for Pads and/or Patterns

This should give you Midi recording and playback.


My Theory which helped me understand this signal flow in our studio:

Spark is SENDING Midi out to the IAC DRIVER "Spark1 Midi OUT".

In the Logic Environment, Logic is listening to the IAC DRIVER "Spark1 Midi Out" which, in the environment is being sent to the "Sequencer input" via the "SUM" (Sum of all Midi inputs going to Logic).

NOTE: In the real-world "Spark1 Midi OUT" could be ANY name designating ANY signal flow so don't let the "OUT" confuse you.

Is this right, Kevin?
"Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit drinking"

Kevin

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Re: That SPARK Midi Problem in LOGIC. Simplified!!!
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2012, 09:36:30 am »

Note: Spark installer will not install samples on an external drive. It went through the motions of writing files but the library was nowhere to be seen until I gave up and put it on my system drive (unhealthy/ slow). I assume I can move it on to the Ext SSD once installed.

You can change the Library path in Spark preferences panel.

Note: it will move the whole Library to the new folder so it may takes a while.

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Is this right, Kevin?
Yes.

Actually there is a way to send MIDI from an Audio Unit to the DAW (just like we do in VST), the problem is that Logic does not implement it, so we can send MIDI to Logic but it does not record it.
That's why we had to implement this complicated stuff. Maybe if lots of Logic users ask Apple to implement this into Logic they will because they seem to not care about Audio Unit developer requests :(
Kevin
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