December 22, 2014, 09:43:28 pm
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email
News: Arturia's webmaster is glad to offer you these brand new forums ! Have fun using it and feel free to email any encountered problem at webmaster@arturia.com.

Arturia Forums



Author Topic: Dear people of Arturia,  (Read 4151 times)

ASch

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 91
  • Karma: 6
Re: Dear people of Arturia,
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2012, 08:42:11 pm »
Like you, TheMoonP, I find it worrying that the Origin developer has to ask management for permission to make a bugfix OS release. I wonder what Arturia's current long-term vision for Origin is.

Developers always have to ask management for permissions and priorities - that's why there are project managers and developers, otherwise developers tend to get lost in their own concerns without a eye to the bigger picture ;) that's just how software development works, at least it always has in every company I've been part of.

Any hoo...

Andreas

hermitnerd

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
  • Karma: 36
  • Paul Schilling
    • Soundcloud page, mostly Origin demos
Re: Dear people of Arturia,
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2012, 05:11:13 pm »
Necessary UI improvements include automatic encoder mapping to the currently open module so editing is simplified. While the dedicated osc, filter, LFO and envelope panel controls allow access to the main sound parameters, it is rather convoluted to adjust modulation depths, especially if you are adjusting several modules after another.

That kind of context switching would be nice. The main tweaking of a patch is often in the modulation depths. And when the user is editing the details of a module, they are not really interested in the encoder knobs doing what they do in "Live" mode. It would be good if the user could define the encoder mapping for each module and save the mapping globally. Feature creep...

What would the control panel look like if there was a hardware knob for all parameters in all modules, for a 4-program Multi, 20 modules per program = 80 modules plus 12 32-step sequencers? It would be a monstrous Hans Zimmer-esque wall of knobs spanning the entire room. Maybe that would be a good marketing image to visualize the power of Origin.

jcoplin

  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • Karma: 0
Re: Dear people of Arturia,
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2012, 08:41:24 pm »
From my perspective it is solid and the update was fine, no problems, just followed instructions.

Really?  Create a new patch and add a Joymixer.  Now try to open and edit the Joymixer.  You can't. 1.4 broke a module which is inexcusable.  How could this possibly have been tested when something so simple doesn't work?  I am sure there are more...

James R. Coplin

synthguy99

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 105
  • Karma: 17
Re: Dear people of Arturia,
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2012, 12:13:45 am »
I have a big long post in response to TheMoonP I was working on today, but rather than post that, I'll wait until I go on my vacation next week and can have a lot of quality time to spend with my synths before I make a direct reply.  But just going on the basis of the Klause Schultze video he mentioned, I'm baffled.  I think any programmer who understands the essentials of synthesis should be able to pretty much recreate that entire performance on the Origin, and come pretty darn close on a Virus, or Kurzweil, or even any rompler with good filters - Roland Fantom users will have quite a job doing everything right, unfortunately.

But honestly... I'm just at a loss as to what magical timbres TheMoonP is hearing that the Origin can't do right.  Every patch Klause is using is quite basic, and I know I have similar sounds lurking in my KORG M3 rompler somewhere.  And yes, I know that MoonP is very picky about the sound of the filters and such, and maybe it's because I'm about as picky as he is, or that I'm a careful tweaker, but I can get some great Modular Moog-ish sounds on just about anything.

One more thing I would add, is have you or anyone checked out chimpy's Tangerine Dream Tribute song he posted in the Origin Users Community board?  The direct link to his thread is here.  According to him, just about every melodic synthesizer sound comes from the Origin.  Does that sound Tangerine Dream-y enough?  ;)
« Last Edit: July 28, 2012, 06:26:48 am by synthguy99 »
One day, I want my keyboard studio to be a synth museum like Hans Zimmer's

p.s.  PRAY FOR THIS PLANET!!

hermitnerd

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
  • Karma: 36
  • Paul Schilling
    • Soundcloud page, mostly Origin demos
Re: Dear people of Arturia,
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2012, 06:02:26 am »
I like Klaus Schulze so I spent a little time coming up with an Origin multi and sequence that is like the performance in the YouTube link that TheMoonP / marcE pointed out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSZL0DPmlkQ

Here is my (rough) rendition of it - not meant to recreate it exactly, just the main elements
http://soundcloud.com/paul-schilling/forbarrygraves-v2

alternate version with slightly different settings:
http://soundcloud.com/paul-schilling/klaus-schulze-for-barry-graves

With some more tweaking and additional "noise" patches it could approach the original a lot more but I don't know if that is really the point. I'll post the Origin programs and sequence  used in the Presets & Templates section
« Last Edit: July 28, 2012, 07:24:59 am by hermitnerd »

ASch

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 91
  • Karma: 6
Re: Dear people of Arturia,
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2012, 12:40:16 pm »
I like Klaus Schulze so I spent a little time coming up with an Origin multi and sequence that is like the performance in the YouTube link that TheMoonP / marcE pointed out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSZL0DPmlkQ

Here is my (rough) rendition of it - not meant to recreate it exactly, just the main elements
http://soundcloud.com/paul-schilling/forbarrygraves-v2

Very nice!  You've got a good ear!

Andreas

synthguy99

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 105
  • Karma: 17
Re: Dear people of Arturia,
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2012, 06:39:09 pm »
Yes, that was very good, as is chimpy's piece I linked to.  I think I'll go ahead and make that post.

First, about Klause Schultze's music track.  To begin with, he has evidently interfaced a number of those synths to his Modular Moog, which you will notice as he begins adjusting settings on the Micromoog just after the 2:15 mark - and which he is clearly not playing.  I suspect the Minimoog is interfaced to play voices on the Modular or something, perhaps even the ARP 2600, as when he begins playing it, there is a subtle phase shifter effect on the sound, so subtle that it sounds like the effect is on a separate synth voice.  This wouldn't be surprising, as these vintage instruments were given basic interfacing capabilities back then in order for the true synthesists like Klause, Edgar Froese and others to link together synths into larger hybrid instruments.  This is a possible part of the reason there are so many patch cables running all over the place, besides the fact that the Modular Moog needed to be set up for other songs too, but I digress.

In any case, the sequence is apparently not just playing a patch on the Modular, but a layer on the Micromoog as well.  And the Micromoog doesn't sound very much like the Modular, or the Mini either.  And if this is true, the sequence is a hybrid sound created by playing both instruments together.

Now, regardless of what synth is making what sound, it's pretty clear to me that any good synthesist can recreate Klause's entire performance just on the Origin, with the possible help of an effects unit at least for the reverb, because the 'verb on the Origin is a bit lacking in quality.  In fact, even though the sonic character wouldn't be exactly the same, I think I could get very close to it with my KORG M3, which has the Radias board installed.

Like MoonP, I've been programming synths for decades, and I've been very lucky to be able to work on dozens of synthesizers; analog vintage, digital, romplers, VA - even FM and physical modeling which are the real hair-pullers, and grasp the capabilities of all of them.  And I can safely say that the only stinker in the bunch is the Roland Fantom, the X in particular as it's the one I'm familiar with, as its filters are the worst of any synth I've ever used.  Great for acoustic instrument shaping, pretty good at certain modern digital synth sounds, but thin and brittle sounding compared to digital filters on other synths, so making vintage synth sounds on it is sometimes an epic struggle.  But even on it, I think I can handle a very good imitation of Klause's performance, especially the Polymoog which is essentially a glorified ARP Omni.

I can't tell you how many times on numerous message boards I've seen someone asking for a sound which ends up being something very basic.  On occasion, there are certain characteristics which require some careful programming, or a certain instrument, like Rush's "Tom Sawyer filter sweep" which is done on a Minimoog.  Now, only a Moog really sounds like a Moog, but on many vintage synths like an Oberheim, you can get close, as well on VAs like a Radias, Virus or Ion.  There was a guy on the Sonikmatter boards who enthused about some of Tony Banks' Synclavier and other sounds he used in some performance from Invisible Touch.  So he pointed us to a Youtube of it, and it ended up being, as usual, very simple patches almost anything could recreate.  One was triangle waves in octaves with perhaps no filtering at all, just some vibrato, and another was a nasal pulse with perhaps some sawtooth, again lightly filtered or not at all.  Really simple stuff, easy to recreate, if you know synthesizers.

And honestly - assuming you guys are still with me ;) - the Klause Schultze sounds may have been very fresh, new, engaging, lovely stuff in the late 70s, but these days are easy peasy to reproduce on a wide variety of synths, and as I said, even romplers.  In fact, today you can buy any rompler from KORG (Kronos in particular), Kurzweil (K2600, PC3), Roland (Jupiter-50, -80) or Yamaha (Motif), and if you're careful with your programming and performing, you can recreate most every aspect of the performances of just about any electronic music group you care to name.  If you're really good, ANY group of ANY nature.

I say this because I'm a careful programmer.  I've been dissecting sounds for way many years before these big expose articles in magazines like Sound On Sound or Mix came along to pull back the curtain on certain clever studio techniques, or online tutorials on synth programming.  I had to learn stuff on my own, and if I wanted a sound, and wanted to produce a song that sounded right, I had to roll up my sleeves and figure it out.  And until a few years ago, I had to force my synths to sound like a wide number of other instruments  Now, I will say that there are some crazy patches done on any number of synths which are pretty different, arcane, or just plain weird.  Those will keep you up at night if you're trying to figure those out.  And with configurable synths like a Yamaha FM, Roland, Kurzweil, OASYS/Kronos or a modular, you're some kind of a synth wizard if you can remotely fathom how some of the exotic patches were created.

In comparison, the sounds Klause Schultze created in that video are kindergarten school simple.  hermitnerd and chimpy among countless others here have done a great job of showing how authentic the Origin can sound.  But if anyone still has doubts about it, I may just sign up on Soundcloud and do a little example of some "krautspace" music as chimpy and hermitnerd did, but with a variety of synths, and see if anyone can tell which is which.
One day, I want my keyboard studio to be a synth museum like Hans Zimmer's

p.s.  PRAY FOR THIS PLANET!!

simchris

  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Karma: 2
Re: Dear people of Arturia,
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2012, 11:08:59 pm »
Dear people of Arturia,

I had to be pleased with the synths Arturia added sporadicly. The main reason for my purchase were the sounds of the Moog Modular and I'm still awaiting them after 2 years!

As others have stated, the Origin was never promoted as offering to replicate the Moog Modular plugin.

However, what may suit you better is what I did, which is frankly the ONLY way to enjoy the MM properly, which is get a dedicated Core i3 PC with 8GB RAM, an inexpensive Presonus USB midi audio I/O, a 49 key USB keyboard, and an Acer 23-inch touchpanel. Turn the touchpanel vertical, and you can see the full MM in all its glory, and use the touchpanel to drag cables.

Home brew Core i3 with Win7/64, $450
Presonus USB audiobox 48k, $100-$139
Novation Nocturn 49, $150-$250
Acer/Viewsonic touchpanel 22/23-inch; $250-$350
MMV Software = almost free in the new V3 package upgrade!
Power to shake the walls: "priceless!"

I've owed dozens of synths since 1981, and just sold my SOLARIS and Waldorf Q+, but kept the Origin KB. It's awesome, and once the CS-80 template/optimizations are done, which frankly will benefit from the voice module work of the SEM, the Origin will be the one to beat. Yes, it's quirky. But almost ALL synths often have ONE code developer, not a team (news to you, I guess). Sonic Core, Solaris, etc., have ONE guy who is the coder. And it's taken 5 years for the Virus Ti to mature. Finally we have bucket brigade chorus, a hallmark of 80s FX ... but didn't happen until recently. Talk about "something missing" there. All things like this which aren't built out of hardware, take time and finesse, testing, and re-writes of core code to include new features. Unlike a true modular, you can't just rack in a new module which is entirely discrete and separate from the rest. Software doesn't work like that.

I am one Happy Origin owner :-)

goldenanalog

  • Beta-testers
  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 31
  • Karma: 7
Re: Dear people of Arturia,
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2012, 12:07:30 am »
synthguy99: I may be mistaken about this, but I believe that the polyphonic 'chordal' part (including filter sweeping) in Rush's Tom Sawyer was created using an Oberheim OB-X (non-'XA' version) whilst the soloing was done with a Minimoog

The OB-X was also the synth sound behind Van Halen's 'Jump', and Ed did the solo on the OB-X.

I also had the old Gamma (Ronnie Montrose) Oberheim 4-voice modular offered to me after I had already purchsed mine; it was a work-of-art-whoevere had done the work on it had done a beautiful job.

Also saw Lyle Mays' 4-voice when mine went in for service-his was(?) modified with additional gate electronics, if my memory serves me...

Fact: I was with Phil (SCI rep at the time)when he programmed the synth that ACDC used on the 'For Those About To Rock, tour---Presummably: All live 'firing Cannon' sounds were done with that Prophet-5.

« Last Edit: July 30, 2012, 05:02:06 am by goldenanalog »

goldenanalog

  • Beta-testers
  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 31
  • Karma: 7
Re: Dear people of Arturia,
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2012, 12:13:33 am »
A suggestion for a compromise might be for Philippe to program 'some' (a select few) of the modules from Moog's System 55 into the Origin...

We choose? Heavenly...

If that suggestion gains any traction, and through sheer luck ends up being a 'go', we would should expect many many hours of work on Philippe's part before the modules saw any light of day.

Hard, tedious work.

And, simchris: May I inquire as to why you sold your Solaris?

EDIT: My apologies for spelling your name wrong, Philippe! RJH
« Last Edit: July 30, 2012, 05:04:23 am by goldenanalog »

simchris

  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Karma: 2
Re: Dear people of Arturia,
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2012, 09:05:53 pm »
Hi,
fyi, I sold my SOLARIS, and am in process of selling huge amount of gear, Jomox SunSyn, CODE 8 OD, Alesis Andromeda A6, OB Matrix 12, DSI PolyEvolver KB + Rack (8 voice); etc. ... taking the moola from my "collection" to help buy a house while the prices have come down 30% in So. Calif, and interest rates remain low. Kind of a now or never thing there. (Sigh.) Only stuff I'm keeping out of about 50 items is my PC3K8, Origin KB, Hammond, and MiniMoog Select with Ribbon Controller. All else going to help do the down payment. (Heavy sigh.)

I did a crappy couple of videos of the SOLARIS on YouTube couple of weeks ago, the day before I boxed it up to ship to the new owner (sigh again). Really amazing sound ... actually sounds better than the Waldorf Q+ on a lot of things using wavetables, and the accuracy of the sound at 96k is pretty amazing, perhaps too clean for some, but you can hear the diff. Really nails Prophet and Oberheim sounds, and Q wavetables (some of them anyway). Although playing with my Nord Lead 3 the other day I "re-discovered" how amazing that thing sounds for classic synth sounds, DX sounds, and a brilliant easy to use interace.

Anyway... there you go. :-)

goldenanalog

  • Beta-testers
  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 31
  • Karma: 7
Re: Dear people of Arturia,
« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2012, 02:28:57 am »
Thanks a-lot for sharing, simchris!

Well: you *certainly* are selling some very desirable equipment, but you are also keeping some of the very best equipment available...

If history is any indicator, Your Hammond and Minimoog will *never* be completely obolete; your Kurzweil also sits at the top of the heap-I have a K2000 and some older 1000 modules; still legitimate....

Yeah, Nord are the dudes-I have the Lead 2X which does great analog emu...

So you're keeping your Origin. Hear that, Philippe? THhs guy has owned some of the best keyboard/synth equipment on the planet, and after (wisely) deciding to become a SoCal property owner, he's keeping a few select pieces, including your (Philippe) Origin.

I'm impressed, simchris, you have EXCELLENT taste!

-Roger (and thanks again!)

 

Carbonate design by Bloc
SMF 2.0.8 | SMF © 2014, Simple Machines