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Author Topic: Dear people of Arturia,  (Read 4105 times)

TheMoonP

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Dear people of Arturia,
« on: July 19, 2012, 08:31:04 am »
Dear people of Arturia,

About 2 years ago I bought myself the Arturia Origin desktop for almost 2500 euros. After reading and looking up as much as possible on this synth, I thought it would be my dreamsynth where I could finalize and level up my cd that I was working on at the time. The ads I've read were talking about Jupiter 8, ARP 2600, Mini Moog, Prophet 5, Moog Modular and VS. When I bought it, there was no Prophet 5, nor the VS... not even the Jupiter 5 nor the Moog Modular. I had to be pleased with the synths Arturia added sporadicly. The main reason for my purchase were the sounds of the Moog Modular and I'm still awaiting them after 2 years! As I can read on the forum, the only one responsible for the feedback on the Origin is Phillip and he has to await your approvals.

I've been a keyboard user for 35 years (had over 50 synths), but I have NEVER encountered something like this. If you would take the time to just take a look at the forum you would notice I'm not the only one complaining. There are people outthere selling their device they have purchased for 2500 euros or over now for a measly 800 euros! It's an outrage that you have pushed them this far. ???  ???

I have 2 questions and really hope you will finally take the time to respond to them. And PLEASE not like with the other forum user by just removing their posting!

1: When do you think it will be safe enough to update the version 1.4 with an Imac MC OS X 10.7.4, without any bugs? Or are you expecting us to also purchase a Windows PC?

2: When can I expect the MOOG MODULAR? Is it going to be the 1.5 version or the never.to.be version?? A friend of mine had the old version of MM running on his PC (XP version), sounds that I can't get out of my Origin... not even close!

I'm really hoping for a positive answer, cause I would like to keep my Origin for a little while longer, altough my frustration is growing strong!

yours truly,

marcE

ps: Phillip, this is not towards you, I don't blame you for what your bosses ask you to type

JacksonP

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Re: Dear people of Arturia,
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2012, 06:43:58 pm »
I am just Origin user so everything here is speculation:

I strongly believe that Moog Modular is too complex for Origin. Does it even have enough memory for its programming and enough CPU power for running it? I don't know. In fact, even if they could make it still it would be difficult to program from this quite large but in this case too small screen, right? I've been many times suggesting for having computer-GUIs for those templates - maybe Arturia could use their V-synths for that (at least for graphics). For Modular this integration would be even more important.

I've been closely checking those newest updates and great work of Philippe. It seems that updating Origin isn't very easy task. Sometimes I wonder why so many things seem to go backwards when making new things for Origin. I mean after updates things that worked fine before do not work anymore.

To be fair with Arturia, they have given many other things that wasn't planned at early stage of Origin. New FX structure of 1.4 is just one example. This is not to say that I would not be very happy to have something like Moog Modular. I just fear that this is the most unlikely thing to happen. Let's see if we get CS-80 or any new template in near future. On the other hand, I feel that those templates are quite important for selling Origin. There are tons of VAs with complex structures, but not that much vintage emulations (in hardware synths). Also, those templates with graphical GUIs are the most fascinating things for myself - it's marvellous thing to fool myself that I am playing Minimoog or Jupiter8. It's almost irrelevant how much they actually sound like real ones cause I cannot make real comparison.

All of us seem to have different perspective and different priorities how Origin should develope. And thanks to Philippe, something is still happening! As a comparison, just think about big company Roland and their one flagship V-piano: nothing much has happened since its release and it has been years. It's marvellous brave product in principal, but Roland has left this project in its early stage and lot potential seems to be left unrealized.

I've stated my priorities many times: I'd like to have little more modern modules like hypersaw osc. Also, I wouldn't mind better computer integration: graphical editor and librarian. About templates why wouldn't they concider those simpler things like Oberhaim SEM (now we already have filter)?

Anyway Arturia can only say what's really happening or is Origin little by little going out of the business. Hopefully not the latter. All this been said, I am quite sure that Arturia is afraid to give any promises anymore. There are so many angry or frustrated original Origin users waiting for those templates that seemed to be available in near future when they bought it...


IAA

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Re: Dear people of Arturia,
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2012, 08:01:18 pm »
I have an iMac latest OS and updated to 1.4 with no problems.
I have arturia MM on mac, whilst programming can be hard work on origin, I honestly have not found a sound that I like on MM that I can't get on origin?

1.4 is v good update, SEM particularly impressive and not originally part of development, but I think, although can't prove, that arturia listened to our requests.

Ian

Superwaldi

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Re: Dear people of Arturia,
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2012, 12:11:32 pm »
I share most of your claims.

As I have bought my Origin there were a lot of official (named in the milestone on Arturias website) promises for coming features, which never made it to the machine. I have big doubts that they ever will be released.

I still think that Origin is a great machine and the are some people at Arturia, which are care by heart about origin, but Arturias strategy is almost against the Origin. There are delays for promised features and some are cancelled totally. I have copies of Interviews and the inital milestone for the case Arturia decides to drop Origins development.

ASch

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Re: Dear people of Arturia,
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2012, 05:35:42 pm »
Oh dear... firstly, buy a machine (and love it) for what it does today, not for what it's promised it might do tomorrow.

That said, I have questions and doubts about Arturia's commitment to the Origin.  As I understand it, Philippe is the only developer working on the Origin?  For a product of this complexity, that is frankly ridiculous and it makes me think that either: 1) Arturia has no commitment to maintaining this amazing synth now they've realized how much work it is; or 2) Arturia now have too many products and they cannot effectively support them all.

I speak as someone with over 20 years experience in the software industry...

Andreas

synthguy99

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Re: Dear people of Arturia,
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2012, 12:11:21 am »
2: When can I expect the MOOG MODULAR? Is it going to be the 1.5 version or the never.to.be version?? A friend of mine had the old version of MM running on his PC (XP version), sounds that I can't get out of my Origin... not even close!

The Moog Modular V template was never promised to my knowledge.  There are only 24 available slots in the Origin, and some modules will eat up too much CPU resources to allow a full 24, like the Bode Frequency Shifter.  There are many more modules on the MMV.

Having said that, I've created Moog Modular 55 patches that use only four or five oscillators, two to four filters, and a smattering of other modules such as mixers, EGs and LFOs.  And listen, if you can't make a honking good patch from four OSCs and filters, you just don't know how to program.

I have to add that programming this thing is easy to get lost in.  Not just because it is a bit tedious, but mostly because the options are so overwhelming - there is SO much you can do with this beast!  I have often begun to string together modules, and then grind to a halt as I wonder just what the heck to do with all this available power.  Most of the time, I quit and go to one of my "template" instruments I created, and begin twisting knobs to see what comes of it.

While there are limits to this little beige and gray box, those limits are incredibly vast in scale.  This really is a synth designed for synthesists like me, who want to create not just patches and sounds, but entire instruments.  New instruments like the Kronos and Jupiter-80 might have more power, but the possibilities of Origin are essentially infinite.

Just start messing with the thing, and see where it takes you.  I still have light years worth of sonic potential to explore...
One day, I want my keyboard studio to be a synth museum like Hans Zimmer's

p.s.  PRAY FOR THIS PLANET!!

TheMoonP

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Re: Dear people of Arturia,
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2012, 02:00:08 am »
Dear Origin Users ,


To Jackson P: If i would be true, that the CPU doesn't have the power to reproduce the Moog Modular, why was it all portraited so distinctly in the ads of Arturia?? If we think about it rationally, all we need is de Osc and the Filter to make the same sound as the MM in the Origin. That's all it takes, cause you can go far with the modules that are allready inside it. Much further than what they are now. The oscillator that are currently available (Mini Moog, Roland,...) aren't enough. You can always use the VCA from other synth modules.

I bought the Origin for the Moog Modular, cause I know how the Arturia MM sounds on the pc and I like to work with synths much more than with pcs.

So Arturia: just the osc and the Filters of the the Moog Modular: that's all we need.

To IAA: Of course you're right, but I only want an update when I'm sure that everything is allright and without any bugs. I'm sick and tired of all those crashes and to have to restart all over again.

To Superwaldi: Thanks, if Arturia promises something to their customers who invested 2500 euro to join their 'adventure', they'll have to keep their promises. The Origin is a great machine, but not exactly what they told in the first place.

To ASch: you are correct, Arturia works on too many projects at the same time, so they've started neglecting others.

To synthguy99: Please , teek a look at the Arturia advertising  ???

And now to the bosses at Arturia:

When do we, YOUR Origin users, get a clear answer and get us out of the obscurity? We're all big customers of Arturia (2500 euros is not a small amount, right) and all we ask for is a finished product. Fullfil your promises!!!

greetings,

marcE

PS: Phillip: please show this to your bosses and let it be clear that we have nothing against you personnally ;)

IAA

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Re: Dear people of Arturia,
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2012, 08:28:05 am »
Marce,

From my perspective it is solid and the update was fine, no problems, just followed instructions.

I really am not sure what you want from origin that you think you can get with MM. As I said I have both, and as synthguy says the programming can be harder in origin, but pretty much endless.
What sound are you after that you can't programme, perhaps that's a better question for us to help you with?

IAA

audiosculpture12

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Re: Dear people of Arturia,
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2012, 11:03:41 am »
it says this on the origin page:

"Create your own patch or use existing audio structures:
- Origin patch made by connecting independent modules from: Minimoog, ARP 2600, CS-80, Jupiter-8, Moog Modular, Prophet 5, Prophet VS, Oberheim SEM
- Origin template synths: Minimoog, Jupiter 8"

I'm not trying to be a smartass, this is a genuine question, is this spec. accurate?
(i had been kinda wondering about getting one...already been a little burnt with spark and don't want to be again)

TheMoonP

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Re: Dear people of Arturia,
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2012, 06:53:42 pm »
Dear friends,

Let me be clear one more time, I only bought the Origin for the sound I was expecting from the Arturia Moog Modular. With the current capacity it's impossible to make a sound like that. I can do it even better with my Waldorf Q. The pre-programmed oscilators just aren't sufficient to create a Moog Modular sound. Ditto for the filters.

I am aware that Arturia can't program the entire Moog Modular V into the Origin, that wouldn't even be clever. What about the patch corps... all of those on that little screen??

I'm not asking for 24 modules, just the principle ones so I can make a MM sound.

What I mean with sound: I'm a huge Tangerine Dream, Klaus Shulze and Redshift-fan, especially the sequences they make.

Just take a moment to listen to the sequences on the cd on the lp or cd Encore from Tangerine Dream as a primal example. Or the ones from Schulze or Redschift ;) Those deep bass sequences, those are the ones I want to create and had expected to create with the Origin. It's all possible with the Moog Modular V and it's not even that hard to do. So why isn't it possible with a 2500 euros piece of equiptment, from the same firm, that made that amazing software for the MM??

I hope this is a better clarification to you all ;)

greetings,

MarcE

ps: I do think the Origin is a great synth, I just had expected so much more, esp from Arturia

synthguy99

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Re: Dear people of Arturia,
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2012, 07:58:13 pm »
I'm a bit skeptical here.  The reason being that the Minimoog, the real one, used the essential filter circuitry from the Modular, as well as an updated oscillator.  And while a Minimoog doesn't sound exactly like a Modular, the instrument which made its mark creating bass and lead sounds used over the past 40-plus years is the Mini.

I have the Moog Modular V, and haven't used it yet.  I want to, but I don't have a dedicated music PC which can play it without lag.  Plus, the sounds in the patch library are a bit underwhelming, to be honest.  To me, though others are plenty happy with it.  Now, maybe I'm an ace programmer or something, but there's not a sound on any album out that I haven't been either to nail or make better on the Origin.  Being a lazy butt, and pinched for time, I'm putting off using it until a vacation opens up in August.  I still have to install the SEM update, but expect to get lost in sonic experimentation all over again.

What's more, I've been able to get "that bass" on a number of synths from Viruses through Radiases, even romplers like the KORG M3 and Yamaha Motif.  Even got close on a JP-8000.  But the filters on the Origin are much better, and I have yet to play with the Oberheim SEM filter, which sounds superb in demos.

If someone with the MMV and an Origin can't recreate the patches from the Modular, something is wrong somewhere.  Tweaking is everything, and in case you aren't aware, no two Minimoogs sound exactly alike, or a Mini and the news Moog Voyager.  But you can get the Voyager to sound very much like the Mini if you adjust it carefully.  This doesn't mean the Voyager is deficient in any way, just that it's different.  Just as the Origin is going to be a little different from the MMV.  For one thing, the Modular is a softsynth, and is most likely being recorded directly into a sequencer, isn't it?  With the Origin, you have to have good Belden or better cables, you need a studio quality interface, or mixer to interface, or use good digital cables from the digital out to a studio quality interface.  Sound levels need to be matched.  If you aren't doing these things, the Origin will sound a little off, or a lot.  If you're having trouble tweaking the Origin to your satisfaction, if you know any programmer friends who understand synthesizers, ask them to give it a try sometime.  Offer beer or pizza as a bribe.  ;)

Another thing is, have you checked out the patch libraries available here on the site?  Did you miss that there are libraries specific to artists such as Tangerine Dream, Klause Schultz, Tomita, Genesis and others?

In any case, for want of anything else to try, experiment.  To me, the Origin is the most wonderful instrument I've ever experienced - though I haven't been exposed to the Sonic Core system or Solaris, which might be better, who knows.  Regardless, I've never failed to create a wonderful sound with it that met or exceeded my desires.  And as I said before, with a few OSCs and filters in a patch, if you can't create what you want, you just need to find someone who knows how to program and work with you.

Whenever my heart burns for something like a real Synthesizers.com or MOTM modular, it just takes a few minutes with the Origin to make me think it's not such a burning issue after all.  ;D
One day, I want my keyboard studio to be a synth museum like Hans Zimmer's

p.s.  PRAY FOR THIS PLANET!!

hermitnerd

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Re: Dear people of Arturia,
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2012, 08:08:57 pm »
I have been a customer of Arturia's soft-synths for about five years. I have only become interested in the Origin some months ago for various reasons. So I guess I am lucky because I haven't had to go through 4 years of expecting/waiting for certain features.

The way I look at it, it is nothing short of a miracle that the Origin, and especially Origin Keyboard have seen the light of day in the first place. I have built, programmed and played synths for three decades and to me Origin is the absolute dream machine in its current state, just as it is right now.

I was disappointed at first that there was no CS80 template, but once I had my hands on it, that sentiment went out the window because I saw that there are only minimal benefits to templates on a machine like this, with such a deep sea of modular programmability. The possibilities are staggering. I can understand some of the frustrations from early adopters, but I just thought I'd share my perspective. I am optimistic that Origin will continue to evolve for a long time.

hermitnerd

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Re: Dear people of Arturia,
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2012, 08:25:46 pm »
Just take a moment to listen to the sequences on the cd on the lp or cd Encore from Tangerine Dream as a primal example. Or the ones from Schulze or Redschift ;) Those deep bass sequences, those are the ones I want to create and had expected to create with the Origin.

Hi MarkE, is there a specific piece or passage from Tangerine Dream's Encore that you are trying to recreate?

TheMoonP

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Re: Dear people of Arturia,
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2012, 10:39:48 am »
Dear friends,

Please don't start treating me as a newbie    ???. I've given my share of contributions as a sounddesigner (not here, but for other synths). There are thousands of people using the sounds that I've created. I even won a sound contest   ;D (Benelux one ,MS2000 ) and got a Korg Triton as a prize, all because I brought there synth to a higher level. So you don't have to start explaining the differences between the Mini Moog and the Modular, I would be ashamed if I wouldn't know that allready. I myself have 2 good ears that can hear the difference between synthsounds.

About the patches on this website, they're all in my Origin. So also the ones from Tangerine Dream, Tomita, and so on... I would be the last one to claim that the sounds aren't good, cause I know how long it takes to create one. But to state that you can hear a Modular in them?? NO WAY! With the software version it was a lot better. And to convince me to check my cables... hmmmm... well, I've been playing my synths for 34 years now (thirty-four yes)... so I'm taking a wild guess and 'think' that I know which are right or not.

Please let us stay onto the subject and just ask Arturia to program the principle modules of the Moog Modular V (ok, Modular V :D) into the Origin.

For the people that want to know what I mean with Modular seq: check on Youtube, Klaus Shulze Live 1977 (Better Image & sound). I searched for this example, cause not everyone owns a cd or lp of Tangerine Dream.

Greetings,

marcE

FlowerP

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Re: Dear people of Arturia,
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2012, 01:08:05 pm »
The ads I've read were talking about Jupiter 8, ARP 2600, Mini Moog, Prophet 5, Moog Modular and VS. When I bought it, there was no Prophet 5, nor the VS... not even the Jupiter 5 nor the Moog Modular.

2: When can I expect the MOOG MODULAR? Is it going to be the 1.5 version or the never.to.be version??

TheMoonP: I think you may have misinterpreted Arturia's marketing claims about Origin. The following text is copied from the Origin specifications per January 2011.

Quote from: Arturia Origin specifications (Jan. 2011)
  • Create your own synthesis patch by connecting independent modules. These modules are either innovative modules we introduced (such as Galaxy) or taken from the best synthesizers ever made (such as the Moog Modular, the Yamaha CS-80, the Roland Jupiter-8, the Minimoog, the ARP 2600, the Sequential Circuits Prophet 5 and Prophet VS).
  • Alternatively, use an existing synthesizer recreation: the Minimoog, the ARP 2600*, the Jupiter-8* or the Prophet 5*
...

* To be delivered later on as a free upgrade

As you can see, no complete Moog Modular was promised. The specs simply state that some Origin modules are derived from the named synths. It is also interesting to see that a CS-80 template was not promised in the specs. However, a CS-80 template was presented in the milestones as the main feature of OS 1.5.

Quote from: Arturia Origin milestones (Jan. 2011)
[ Q1 2011 ] 1.5 Version
  • New template : CS80
    Other new features and enhancements to be confirmed.

I would love a CS-80 template on Origin, as that would make the perfomance controls more accessible than they are when using a custom CS-80-like patch. Other than that, I'd prefer if Arturia prioritized bug fixes and UI enhancements over development of new modules. Some things that need to be fixed are MIDI performance controller (PB, AT, CC) smoothing and constant rate portamento scaling. Necessary UI improvements include automatic encoder mapping to the currently open module so editing is simplified. While the dedicated osc, filter, LFO and envelope panel controls allow access to the main sound parameters, it is rather convoluted to adjust modulation depths, especially if you are adjusting several modules after another.

Like you, TheMoonP, I find it worrying that the Origin developer has to ask management for permission to make a bugfix OS release. I wonder what Arturia's current long-term vision for Origin is.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 08:43:44 pm by FlowerP »

 

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