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Author Topic: Slicer Pad Effects  (Read 745 times)

Emilie

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Slicer Pad Effects
« on: February 28, 2011, 06:54:32 pm »

Hi all,

Just a bit of history about the slicer effect.
First, i would like to clarify the 1, 1/2, 1/4... values: 1 is set for 1 measure, 1/2 for half a measure and so on.

So when using the repeat effect with value 1/4, the slicer will repeat 1/4 of the played measure until you release the pad, or when using the tape effect with value 1/2, the slicer will slow down to 0  in one half measure time.

Some of you has noticed that there are additionnal effects on some repeat/effect value combinations:

- Repeat Effect with 1, 1/16, 1/32
- Reverse Effect with 1/16, 1/32
- Pan Effect with 1/16, 1/32
- Repeat Mixed Effect with 1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/16, 1/32
- Strobe Effect with 1, 1/2, 1/4 (silence is replaced with the detuned loop)


We have decided to add those funny effects when a combination doesn't guarantee an audible and nice result. For example, when playing with a pattern which length is one measure and using Slicer Repeat effect with value 1, it's just looping the pattern itself so it doesn't give an audible and interesting result.
Or when using 1/32 depending on the pattern you are playing, if there is no audio at the 1/32 that is repeating, it could result in a blank repeat.

Let us know your feedbacks, and ideas about.

Emilie&Kevin

Koshdukai

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Re: Slicer Pad Effects
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2011, 07:13:47 pm »
- Repeat Effect with 1, 1/16, 1/32
- Reverse Effect with 1/16, 1/32
- Pan Effect with 1/16, 1/32
- Repeat Mixed Effect with 1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/16, 1/32
- Strobe Effect with 1, 1/2, 1/4 (silence is replaced with the detuned loop)

We have decided to add those funny effects when a combination doesn't guarantee an audible and nice result. For example, when playing with a pattern which length is one measure and using Slicer Repeat effect with value 1, it's just looping the pattern itself so it doesn't give an audible and interesting result.
Or when using 1/32 depending on the pattern you are playing, if there is no audio at the 1/32 that is repeating, it could result in a blank repeat.

I've noticed some, if not all of those unexpected behaviors. Now that I know those are by design, I'll have another go at trying to understand how natural they feel while playing/using them live.


One suggestion, that I should check first, but here it goes (please ignore it if that's how it works already): Repeat should take a snapshot of the longest possible length (i.e. 1 measure) and work with that snapshot (not resampling it) while there's a finger in the touchpad, to allow us to play with different repeat measures based on that same audio snapshot.

I think that, right now, each time a repeat value is selected a new audio snapshot is taken, right ? (again, I'm not with Spark atm, but I'll confirm this in a couple of hours, so if this isn't the case, please ignore it).

Emilie

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Re: Slicer Pad Effects
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2011, 07:38:11 pm »
Thanks!

The slicer is using the last recorded measure for creating slices when you press the pad. Once you have pressed the pad, it will use the same audio until you release the pad.

So it should work as you expect, i think and hope...
Emilie

Koshdukai

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Re: Slicer Pad Effects
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2011, 10:15:36 pm »
Oh ok, now I know what made me suggest the above. You're right, it does this already, but... there's a problem with the quantized start of the audio loop each time we change repeat values. At least it feels like it to me, and I'm guessing that's what made me think this wasn't already working as described.

For instance, if I touch the touchpad at 1/4, there's a slight "hiccup" beat before it syncs perfectly with the tempo of the running pattern, then as I slide the mouse to 1/8 it stays well synced and further divides the repeat loop into half, as expected without any extra strange beat inserted, but as soon as I slide the mouse back to 1/4 there it goes into a "lost sync" brief moment before it syncs again with what's expected from the running pattern.

I'll try to capture this on video and demo what I'm talking about.


Also, I must say that, the 1, 1/16, 1/32 "surprise" effects, in my personal opinion, they almost deserve a Slicer Mode of their own or some way of triggering the pitch ramp up or down effect, while already on repeat/reverse/etc effect, leaving those values free for the expected loop length, even if it wouldn't make any sense with the pattern length that's being used.

I would agree that 1 is/will be frequently unusable or indistinguishable from the pattern already running, although being an audio based loop, some sample hits triggered at the end of the pattern will have a different vibe and sound cut effect when forced into a 1 measure audio loop, but granted, that's not an usual thing to have.

1/16 and 1/32, on the other hand, are loop/repeat lengths that are frequently used on some music genres, so I don't understand why aren't those working as expected.


Again, those extra effects are cool enough to deserve a mode on their own or a way to trigger them while using the existing effects.

I know this might be already late in the game, but I would've divided the touchpad in vertical stripes of 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16 (and maybe 1/32 if there was enough width), so that, any slide up or down within each vertical strip would trigger the pitch ramp up or down effect currently used on 1/16 and 1/32.   ...but this is me thinking out loud ::)

EDIT2: ...or, maybe take advantage of the LOOP knobs while pattern loop is OFF ? Because those knobs are unused when Pattern Loop button is OFF, so those could be used with the Touchpad effects ? Just throwing some ideas here, although I know this might disrupt what's already designed :)


EDIT: btw, this is the one effect I think makes all the sense in working like it is right now.
- Strobe Effect with 1, 1/2, 1/4 (silence is replaced with the detuned loop)
Just love the end result of how this effect is implemented right now.
I can't say the same of the others though, since I miss the possibility of reaching 1/16 and 1/32 repeats (maybe 1/32 reversed won't be that noticeable, with that I agree)
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 12:10:10 pm by Koshdukai »

nickysick

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Re: Slicer Pad Effects
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2011, 10:41:31 pm »
What if you offered a few more strange effects and then in the preferences you can pick which weird effect you want to use for the slicer pad effect. I dig the splicer but maybe it could be even more interesting.

Koshdukai

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Re: Slicer Pad Effects
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2011, 01:39:22 am »
but... there's a problem with the quantized start of the audio loop each time we change repeat values. At least it feels like it to me, and I'm guessing that's what made me think this wasn't already working as described.

For instance, if I touch the touchpad at 1/4, there's a slight "hiccup" beat before it syncs perfectly with the tempo of the running pattern, then as I slide the mouse to 1/8 it stays well synced and further divides the repeat loop into half, as expected without any extra strange beat inserted, but as soon as I slide the mouse back to 1/4 there it goes into a "lost sync" brief moment before it syncs again with what's expected from the running pattern.

I'll try to capture this on video and demo what I'm talking about.
Well...

While trying to prove my point, I started Spark, then the video capture thingy and...  Spark, just to prove me wrong, worked perfectly, all in-sync, no weird hiccups, just like I would expect it to work in the 1st place (and just like Emilie hoped, I'm sure).

"oh great... now I'm crazy -.-' ...why the heck did it work differently before!?"
Since I was already video capturing the desktop, I recorded a few tests to be sure, then simply stopped recording... and got a crash soon after (due to the closing/opening the Top/Bottom sections).

Anyway, not to be defeated easily, I tried again. Started Spark again (to be honest, I started Spark a couple of times, got some crashes and then, at 4th try...), started recorded again, and, "magically" got the problems I was talking about.

I think (and hope) that this video clearly shows the hiccups on repeat start I was describing: ScreenCapture 28 02 2011 22 33 32 = Repeat not working correctly
(The video is on a weird size format, but it goes up to HD 1080p, to anyone with enough screen height, you can pop-up the video and watch it in it's full vertical glory ;D)

I've also uploaded the first video, where everything worked (surprisingly) well, but that one I'll have to add some comments to become somewhat relevant to other reported (and still unreported) Cases.

One thing that may explain all these hiccups I'm demoing, may be the windows related performance issues we've been talking about. The curious thing is that, both sessions were captured on the same machine (i7 Win7) only with some Spark crashes between them... which now makes me think that the 1st video (the one where everything went ok) was exactly the 1st time I executed Spark (standalone) since booting my laptop.

Could it be that there's some serious memory leakage on crash that it would make RAM so fragmented after 4 crashes to the point of hitting performance this hard ?! (is this even possible to happen on Win7 ?!).


EDIT: Ok, here's the 1st video. You may jump to the middle of it, where Repeat works flawlessly, erm... also proving that the user (i.e. me!) is also able to do some synced repeats as long as the app let's him (erm, me) ::)
ScreenCapture 28 02 2011 21 36 58 = Repeat working perfectly as it should.
(please, ignore the 1st 2 comments in the video, those relate to other already reported cases)
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 05:22:58 pm by Koshdukai »

 

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