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Author Topic: Interesting pattern drag and drop in DAW's observation...  (Read 1919 times)

whitecloud

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Interesting pattern drag and drop in DAW's observation...
« on: May 16, 2013, 05:09:00 am »
Hello.  I am presently demoing both Spark software 1.6.1 and the Current VDM as well. Since I have a Akai MPD32 that has midi learned from what is available in CDM it seems
to work ok so that is why I thought I would try VDM(I have "Geist") so sampling or sample import isn't a major concern and I'd save $ and not buy SparkLe. Well then I discovered there is no drag and drop with the current VDM I thought
well better go for SparkLe as it really isn't that much more.  That aside here is the reason for this thread and discussion of the "Subject".
I know there is no midi export with the demo's
BUT in Cubase 5.1 Essentials and the current Reaper you can click and drag on the jog wheel(pattern) and place it on the Spark or a plain midi track.
It just doesn't play the sounds.  At first I noticed the wrong midi notes and then I searched here and found that others have had a problem
like I just described. SO.  I did some more midi drag and drop tests using 1.6.1 and then removed the VSTi track and Spark.
Then I loaded up VDM and used the same kit and erased a pattern then placed that previous midi from CDM
on VDM track.  It played flawlessly. but not with 1.6.1.  Weird, unless this is just how the Demo restriction work with
1.6.1. Since I have read pleas here from other's that have drag and drop issues with the Authorized versions I want to know if these are mainly isolated issues
or a known bug?
I haven't noticed CPU issues like so many Windows users have complained about and I don't notice as big of a hit like I get using say DCAM Synth Squad
or the "Diva" demo. Huh. I guess I am lucky as my machine is 2 years old (intel(R) core( TM) i3 cpu 5.50
@ 3.20 Ghz 8 gigs of ram Win 7 64 bit Home Premium. So I can use this software and am not too concerned ie:CPU so far.
I really don't want to only have audio export as an option so either midi drag and drop or midi is recorded from Spark VSTi on it's track is a must.
Please advise and all comments welcome. BTW have the "MiniBrute" and just love it :)

CC4

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Re: Interesting pattern drag and drop in DAW's observation...
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2013, 01:20:11 pm »
I don't know what the demo limitations are, but I myself have not had any issues with Drag&Dropping MIDI patterns from Spark 1.6.1 to FL Studio.  It's currently the best way I've found to use Spark inside that particular host.

Using Cubase and Reaper you should also be able to use the "Send MIDI from Sequencer" and "Send MIDI from Pads" options found in the Preferences section of Spark.

I'd recommend SparkLE over Vintage.  I think you still get all of the kits from Vintage in Spark and the controller is rather nice.

dancetech

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Re: Interesting pattern drag and drop in DAW's observation...
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2013, 11:38:54 pm »
well for me (1.6.1) the worst thing about drag and drop is that all the notes are on the wrong note numbers!! lol




whitecloud

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Re: Interesting pattern drag and drop in DAW's observation...
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2013, 12:16:06 am »
well for me (1.6.1) the worst thing about drag and drop is that all the notes are on the wrong note numbers!! lol
Where did you drag and drop from, the bottom panel as showed in some vids or from the center pattern Jog wheel?
How is the export mid/import back in DAWi working as I would assume you would of tried that since the drag and drop isn't
a viable choice with your system? I guess you are the one that has a series of vids using Spark.  Is this issue
illustrated in any of them? I have only watched a few so far.
Side note, I haven't been to your site in ages as I frequented daily in the 90's+ Back then a lot of useful info etc.
Guess it is time to poke around there again :)

dancetech

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Re: Interesting pattern drag and drop in DAW's observation...
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2013, 12:20:53 am »
well for me (1.6.1) the worst thing about drag and drop is that all the notes are on the wrong note numbers!! lol
Where did you drag and drop from, the bottom panel as showed in some vids or from the center pattern Jog wheel?
How is the export mid/import back in DAWi working as I would assume you would of tried that since the drag and drop isn't
a viable choice with your system? I guess you are the one that has a series of vids using Spark.  Is this issue
illustrated in any of them? I have only watched a few so far.
Side note, I haven't been to your site in ages as I frequented daily in the 90's+ Back then a lot of useful info etc.
Guess it is time to poke around there again :)

hi. this problem happens when you are using spark's INTERNAL pattern sequencer to trigger and play either 3rd party s/w drums or a 3rd party sound module

the patterns plays the 3rd party module/software 100%, using the note numbers assigned to the pads as it should.

but upon drag/drop export to a Logic sequencer track all the notes are on the wrong note numbers :(



whitecloud

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Re: Interesting pattern drag and drop in DAW's observation...
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2013, 12:42:14 am »
well for me (1.6.1) the worst thing about drag and drop is that all the notes are on the wrong note numbers!! lol
Where did you drag and drop from, the bottom panel as showed in some vids or from the center pattern Jog wheel?
How is the export mid/import back in DAWi working as I would assume you would of tried that since the drag and drop isn't
a viable choice with your system? I guess you are the one that has a series of vids using Spark.  Is this issue
illustrated in any of them? I have only watched a few so far.
Side note, I haven't been to your site in ages as I frequented daily in the 90's+ Back then a lot of useful info etc.
Guess it is time to poke around there again :)

hi. this problem happens when you are using spark's INTERNAL pattern sequencer to trigger and play either 3rd party s/w drums or a 3rd party sound module

the patterns plays the 3rd party module/software 100%, using the note numbers assigned to the pads as it should.

but upon drag/drop export to a Logic sequencer track all the notes are on the wrong note numbers :(
Thanks, almost got it but am not 100% clear.  Are you saying that all of the above is strictly regarding 3rd part hard/software, and that the patterns
play correctly Using Spark CDM 1.6.1 having the patterns on a DAW's instrument track driving Sparks software engine?

dancetech

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Re: Interesting pattern drag and drop in DAW's observation...
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2013, 01:44:44 am »
well for me (1.6.1) the worst thing about drag and drop is that all the notes are on the wrong note numbers!! lol
Where did you drag and drop from, the bottom panel as showed in some vids or from the center pattern Jog wheel?
How is the export mid/import back in DAWi working as I would assume you would of tried that since the drag and drop isn't
a viable choice with your system? I guess you are the one that has a series of vids using Spark.  Is this issue
illustrated in any of them? I have only watched a few so far.
Side note, I haven't been to your site in ages as I frequented daily in the 90's+ Back then a lot of useful info etc.
Guess it is time to poke around there again :)

hi. this problem happens when you are using spark's INTERNAL pattern sequencer to trigger and play either 3rd party s/w drums or a 3rd party sound module

the patterns plays the 3rd party module/software 100%, using the note numbers assigned to the pads as it should.

but upon drag/drop export to a Logic sequencer track all the notes are on the wrong note numbers :(
Thanks, almost got it but am not 100% clear.  Are you saying that all of the above is strictly regarding 3rd part hard/software, and that the patterns
play correctly Using Spark CDM 1.6.1 having the patterns on a DAW's instrument track driving Sparks software engine?




um, not sure

what im doing is using spark to trigger 3rd party s/w running as a plugin in logic

or i am using spark to trigger a 3rd party hardware module

with either i can also make patterns in sparks pattern sequencer triggering either 3rd party sound-source  (NOT spark internal sounds)

when patterns are exported they are wrong notes. when patterns are in spark they trigger the 3rd party hardware or software fine as they should.

dancetech

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Re: Interesting pattern drag and drop in DAW's observation...
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2013, 05:54:18 pm »
ok i now get it.

no matter how you set sparks pads (spark, gm or custom) when you drag/drop export a pattern it always exports in 'spark' format sadly (starting at c3 and working up the pads in semi-tones)


now i'm experimenting with spark running as a plugin in logic and sadly whatever you set the pads to, again, export is only in 'spark' pad-map format.

so you think, ok, i'll just leave spark in that 'Spark' pad-map so it's working to it's own pad-map... but... there's another bug which is that the pads do NOT play out their correct note numbers

they all transmit midi OUT transposed DOWN by 6 octaves from C3 down to C-2

pads 1-8 play midi OUT starting at C-2 ,working up in semitones to the 8th pad

but switch bank to 9-16 and the pads sadly again, only play out the same set of notes.. starting at pad-9 on C-2 and working up in semitones to pad 16


so there is two bugs:

1. the pads are sending midi out on the wrong octave (starting @ c-2 instead of c3)

2. the pads do not send out different note numbers when you switch bank to 9-16


even though when you cmd/click to observe/set the midi note it clearly shows the second bank of pads are on different note numbers.

so it seems spark was really designed to only use it's internal sequencer & then drag/drop any patterns into your host sequencer tracks later.

when used like that with spark running in sync inside Logic it works fine yes... but if you want to play pads directly onto your spark logic track to record notes directly to the track instead of into spark's internal sequencer, then you are stuffed.

the only way to do it is to attach a master keyboard to sparks midi IN and then yes you can trigger the correct notes and write patterns directly to spark's logic track



its such a shame the two banks of pads dont send out different note numbers when you switch pad-bank... cos if it DID, then we could simply fix the midi out 'wrong octave' problem by creating a simple Logic mapped-instrument in the environment and then re-mapping sparks notes.

That solution works of course but only for one bank of pads, cos bank-2 of the pads (9-16) are sending out the same notes as bank-1 (1-8).






no way round it i can see. arturia have to fix:

1. wrong midi note out from pads

2. wrong octave for midi out from pads.

3. pattern export should follow the note numbers you set for the pads. (it only exports in spark format)


another bug i've found is pad midi note settings dont always get saved when you reload a project.


i realise i'm late coming to the party here, so this is probably already noted.

as i say though, until those bugs are fixed, add a cheap midi keyboard plugged in via spark's midi In port and you can then write patterns to spark's host sequecner track all day no problems.

whitecloud

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Re: Interesting pattern drag and drop in DAW's observation...
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2013, 06:55:44 pm »
ok i now get it.

no matter how you set sparks pads (spark, gm or custom) when you drag/drop export a pattern it always exports in 'spark' format sadly (starting at c3 and working up the pads in semi-tones)


now i'm experimenting with spark running as a plugin in logic and sadly whatever you set the pads to, again, export is only in 'spark' pad-map format.

so you think, ok, i'll just leave spark in that 'Spark' pad-map so it's working to it's own pad-map... but... there's another bug which is that the pads do NOT play out their correct note numbers

they all transmit midi OUT transposed DOWN by 6 octaves from C3 down to C-2

pads 1-8 play midi OUT starting at C-2 ,working up in semitones to the 8th pad

but switch bank to 9-16 and the pads sadly again, only play out the same set of notes.. starting at pad-9 on C-2 and working up in semitones to pad 16


so there is two bugs:

1. the pads are sending midi out on the wrong octave (starting @ c-2 instead of c3)

2. the pads do not send out different note numbers when you switch bank to 9-16


even though when you cmd/click to observe/set the midi note it clearly shows the second bank of pads are on different note numbers.

so it seems spark was really designed to only use it's internal sequencer & then drag/drop any patterns into your host sequencer tracks later.

when used like that with spark running in sync inside Logic it works fine yes... but if you want to play pads directly onto your spark logic track to record notes directly to the track instead of into spark's internal sequencer, then you are stuffed.

the only way to do it is to attach a master keyboard to sparks midi IN and then yes you can trigger the correct notes and write patterns directly to spark's logic track



its such a shame the two banks of pads dont send out different note numbers when you switch pad-bank... cos if it DID, then we could simply fix the midi out 'wrong octave' problem by creating a simple Logic mapped-instrument in the environment and then re-mapping sparks notes.

That solution works of course but only for one bank of pads, cos bank-2 of the pads (9-16) are sending out the same notes as bank-1 (1-8).






no way round it i can see. arturia have to fix:

1. wrong midi note out from pads

2. wrong octave for midi out from pads.

3. pattern export should follow the note numbers you set for the pads. (it only exports in spark format)


another bug i've found is pad midi note settings dont always get saved when you reload a project.


i realise i'm late coming to the party here, so this is probably already noted.

as i say though, until those bugs are fixed, add a cheap midi keyboard plugged in via spark's midi In port and you can then write patterns to spark's host sequecner track all day no problems.
Thanks for the info Me thinks you almost don't care for the Spark's sound engine or just want to add another feature to control other Drum VI's
For me I have  now ruled  out buying just VDM for around a $100.00. I have setup my Akai MPD32 and it works fine with this Software and CDM but I occasionally have to relearn the first pad(BD) from time to time. The think is on the plus side I like the workflow but wouldn't buy the Original Spark and would opt for SparkLe. I am still in the Demo stage so it comes down to know if I like the sound compared to some of it's competitors. If I can drag and drop or export/import w/o problems with the intention of just using Sparks software cool. Today I am going to do a side by side drum sound comparison in a Project with CDM and dare I save Sonic Charges uTonic which has just had a major upgrade and is 64 bit now.
I does have a functional midi out feature but is limited to 16 steps. The other drum synth I used quite a bit is "Geist"and although very powerful, it is only sample based and I want at least one drum synth that uses synthesis. I will make my decision probably before the Demos expire, and I really hope I like SparkLe enough to purchase it because of how much it seems like working with actual hardware. When you said ......."another bug i've found is pad midi note settings dont always get saved when you reload a project.,"
that kind of concerns me. Like I said I love my MiniBrute and have just discovered how many really like Oberheim SEM V and I will demo that one after this is all resoved, so it looks like Arturia is on a roll.

dancetech

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Re: Interesting pattern drag and drop in DAW's observation...
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2013, 09:59:02 pm »
no i like the sound engine alot and the whole thing in fact, but  i would want to simply write patterns to my host sequencer spark track whenever i want to. I dont always want to use the spark internal sequencer.

also i love the ability for spark to write patterns for 3rd part s/w and h/w, ITS FANTASTIC!, so obviously i need spark to then export the patterns on the same note numbers as the actual pads.

What i'm saying is that spark is so much more than self contained drumbox, so if those bits are fixed it can be so much more! ;)

whitecloud

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Re: Interesting pattern drag and drop in DAW's observation...
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2013, 10:07:53 pm »
no i like the sound engine alot and the whole thing in fact, but  i would want to simply write patterns to my host sequencer spark track whenever i want to. I dont always want to use the spark internal sequencer.

also i love the ability for spark to write patterns for 3rd part s/w and h/w, ITS FANTASTIC!, so obviously i need spark to then export the patterns on the same note numbers as the actual pads.

What i'm saying is that spark is so much more than self contained drumbox, so if those bits are fixed it can be so much more! ;)
Cool, that's what I want to hear.  I'm going to really demo the hell out of it as like I said I think they really have something going with it I just wanted to find out if there was any deal breakers.  Actually I think SparkLe has the controller set up as good or better than it's big brother and at a very far price.  The pads seem to be a bit small but I really can't tell but
from the vids looks like they are very responsive.

CC4

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Re: Interesting pattern drag and drop in DAW's observation...
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2013, 12:31:32 am »
Ah, I think I understand your issues.

whitecloud

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Re: Interesting pattern drag and drop in DAW's observation...
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2013, 04:13:06 am »
I have solved the Drag and drop and export midi using VDM. VDM is fully functional for 15 days so you can do this and it works fine if you go into preferences and change the "midi drum map to pads" to Spark as it is is defaulted to either custom or GM. I will try the GM map option to see if I get the same issue Dancetech gets and chose a Drum plug that is mapped to GM and report back. CDM has no time limit but you can't export or drag and drop, so that was why I though it may be a problem but I can see now it wouldn't.
I am facing a dilemma.  I just don't need sample import and while I haven't gone through all the stock presets, I felt there was a lot of samples, especially no
drums like synth sounds and vocals etc. I have "Geist and it really is a monster sampler/sample based drum machine/sequencer. You can go up to over a 1000 steps if you wish.  With the supplied plug "splitter" you can sample hardware, soft synths and sample itself. As far as rex files or loops you can slice and  do this in so many ways to lay it out on the 16 pads. It can automatically set slice points or you can do this manually I have a fair amount of drum samples and my Akai MPD32 has a template that marries well with Geist.
I have been programming the Akai for VDM and this is what I have so far. Again the MPD32 has 16X4 pads for notes or program changes.The first bank I have for the drum/ pads and don't need to select 9-16 all 16 drums sounds play on that 4x4 pad layout. The second pad bank is set to change the 16 patterns. It also has 8x3 sliders for cc's etc. and 8x3 buttons toggle or momentary. I can hit a button for 1-8 or 1-16 to make that change if I wish hit one for record, accent, erase hit that one then on bank two of the Akai's pads hit the pattern to erase. Loop on off and knobs for divide and move. Shuffle master volume.  All the center knobs using the Akai's knobs and sliders, plus I can go to the bottom and program the 6 parameter knobs.  The problem is I would have to chose control over the center controls or the individual bottom parameters
but either way it comes down to roughly 6 drum sound controls + Cutoff and resonance, so I am having a hard time trying to chose between the 2.
I don't need 16 volume and pan or aux's as I will use the plugs I have bought that will do a better job as far as processing individual drums in my DAW.

What I don't get that the SparkLe controller has is backlit Pads and there is no midi learn for the step sequencer but the SparkLe controller does so, but I can follow the GUI with my Akai inputting notes. I really don't care about the touch pad as it is more for live than recording I believe.
I really just want analog modeling and perhaps Physical modeling. I'll do some more work programming VDM/Akai and listen to more of the CDM presets then decide. It comes down to $150.00 for a lot of samples I don't need, and deciding what would be the best controller as they both have their +'s and -'s.
And as I said above I am going to do the MPC Stuff mod for my Akai and probably opt for the thick pads then I will have a better response from them.
Any thoughts about what I shared are surely welcome.  I may even start another thread with just this reply as the topic.

Mulperi

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Re: Interesting pattern drag and drop in DAW's observation...
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2013, 03:20:06 pm »
Anyone know if they fixed the note issues??

 

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