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Author Topic: midi local on/off mode, aftertouch, usb  (Read 2886 times)

jooechip

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midi local on/off mode, aftertouch, usb
« on: December 01, 2012, 04:08:21 pm »
Hi Bruno,

Had a bit more of a play around with the Minibrute today and noticed the following:

1.   There needs to be a midi local on/off mode, otherwise it is impossible to use the Minibrute as a master controller, i.e. you canít send midi to a DAW without hearing the Minibrute itself (you can turn the volume down on the Minibrute, but that of course means if it is being played via Midi on a DAW you canít hear it).

I'm guessing Arturia must be aware of this as it's such a huge schoolboy error. Can a firmware update fix this with something like powering on holding one of the octave buttons to get into local on/off mode?


2.   The whole idea of aftertouch is that it comes in 'after' the key is pressed. Aftertouch on the Minibrute comes in way too quickly. Any hard key press brings in aftertouch and since there is no way to control the depth of aftertouch, in the case of assigning filter cut-off to aftertouch, the filter bursts in when a key is played hard. I've either had to filter out aftertouch on my DAW (Cubase), play really gently, or go back and delete the aftertouch on the recorded midi track. I have two other midi keyboards (different manufacturers) with aftertouch and none behave like the Minibrute.


3.   I canít connect via USB/MiniBrute_Connection_1_0_1 if any midi signal is being sent to the midi-in.

 
The Minibrute sounds super-nice, but if points 1 + 2 are not addressed it is unusable as a DAW controller. I'm short of space on my desk, and one of the reasons I bought the Minibrute was to replace my 37 key controller and so I am stunned and a little annoyed that  'midi local on/off mode'  was not implemented from day one.

Joe
« Last Edit: December 01, 2012, 04:44:02 pm by jooechip »

Bruno@arturia

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Re: midi local on/off mode, aftertouch, usb
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2012, 09:44:40 am »
Hi,
1/ Local Off will be added in a coming firmware update. But this update is not planned yet.
2/ Did you try the settings in MiniBrute Connection software? Does it make any difference?
3/ I guess you are under Windows.... Windows Usb/Midi driver is not multi-client. That means only 1 software can be "connected" to a device. You can always post a feature request to Microsoft  ;)

Bruno
Bruno
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jooechip

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Re: midi local on/off mode, aftertouch, usb
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2012, 01:33:41 pm »
Hi Bruno,

Point 3 - This is not a big problem, but just to be clear, it has nothing to do with the Windows Usb/Midi driver not being multi-client. Any midi signal to the MIDI input stops the Minibrute connecting.

Point 2 - I've tried the linear/log/straight settings, but none stop the aftertouch coming in with a keypress at high velocity. Like I said before, aftertouch is supposed to be 'after' the original keypress.

Edit - I connected the Minibrute midi out to Cubase's midi-monitor and the time/velocity at which the Minibrute aftertouch comes in is very different to the response from my other DAW controller. Also, it looks like any aftertouch data sent to the Minibrute midi 'in' is not recognised.

Point 1 - Sorry, but this IS a big big problem. At the moment I have two midi keyboards on my small desk because I cannot use the Minibrute as a DAW controller. Telling me that an update is not planned yet is really not good enough. I'd like a solid date on when a midi local on/off will be added.

http://www.arturia.com/evolution/en/products/minibrute/details.html
 
3/ Connect to the World
 Thanks to its full MIDI/CV/USB connectivity, MiniBrute is designed to fit seamlessly in any modern or vintage studio.

    MIDI In/Out : Sequence MiniBrute from your computerís MIDI interface and DAW, or any other MIDI-Out enabled gear you have. Alternatively use MiniBrute as a master keyboard for your DAW or other MIDI-enabled equipment.
    CV In/Out : Chain MiniBrute to your vintage synthesizer, or modular, to get a beefier sound. Expand, control and sequence MiniBrute from your vintage equipment. Use MiniBrute to control your vintage synths (It conforms to the classic 1 Volt per Octave scaling system). Use MiniBrute as a MIDI to CV converter.
    USB In/Out: Sequence MiniBrute directly from your computerís DAW without needing a MIDI interface. Use MiniBrute as a USB-MIDI controller, use MiniBrute as a USB MIDI to CV converter.

Thanks,

Joe
 



« Last Edit: December 03, 2012, 03:28:07 pm by jooechip »

dalasv

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Re: midi local on/off mode, aftertouch, usb
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2012, 03:59:26 am »
I highly doubt you will get a "solid date" when submitting any feature request to any software team. Developers are not sitting around waiting for just one person to send them something to do; they are always working and take your requests into consideration while balancing their existing workload. They work on problems until they are solved and tested, and release them when the software (firmware in this case) is ready. Be realistic.

Bruno@arturia

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Re: midi local on/off mode, aftertouch, usb
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2012, 07:05:09 pm »
Hi Joe,
3/ sorry I didn't understood it was on the hardware midi input. My mistake, I will check this soon.

2/ ok

1/ I know it's a well requested feature. I said It will be done, but as nicely explained by dalasv, I don't decide myself,when this update will be done. I have a planning to follow, and other projects to work on, and I don't decide myself which one will be done first. So everything I can tell you is that at the moment the planning is not done. Anyway it is realistic to say it will be within 6 months. But don't take it either as a solid date.

[EDIT] Typing correction
« Last Edit: December 07, 2012, 09:56:02 am by Bruno@arturia »
Bruno
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jooechip

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Re: midi local on/off mode, aftertouch, usb
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2012, 08:55:26 am »
1/ I know it's a well requested feature. I said It will be done, but as nicely explained by dalasv, I don't decide myself,when this update will be done. I have a planning to follow, and other projects to work on, and I don't decide myself which one will be done first. So everything I can tell you is that at the moment the planning is not done. Anyway it is realistic to say it will be within 6 months. But don't take it either as a solid date.

[EDIT by bruno]: Typing correction in own my quote

Hi Bruno,

Thanks for the honest reply. Within 6 months you say? If so, then Arturia need to edit the Minibrute details page because it is clearly wrong, misrepresenting the Minibrute as being capable of doing something that it can't (see link below).

http://www.arturia.com/evolution/en/products/minibrute/details.html
 
3/ Connect to the World
MIDI In/Out : Sequence MiniBrute from your computerís MIDI interface and DAW, or any other MIDI-Out enabled gear you have. Alternatively use MiniBrute as a master keyboard for your DAW or other MIDI-enabled equipment.

Without midi local on/off, it is currently impossible to use the Minibrute as a master keyboard for any DAW (unless of course you turn down the main volume of the Minibrute).


Thanks,

Joe

« Last Edit: December 07, 2012, 09:56:50 am by Bruno@arturia »

Bruno@arturia

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Re: midi local on/off mode, aftertouch, usb
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2012, 09:51:39 am »
You are right, I will report that to the marketing.

Thanks
Bruno
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jooechip

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Re: midi local on/off mode, aftertouch, usb
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2012, 10:27:33 am »
Hi Bruno,

First, I do really really love the sound of the Minibrute and lots of respect to Arturia for taking the plunge into analog. However,  as I cannot use the Minibrute as a DAW controller at the moment (which is one of the reasons I bought it), would I be entitled to a refund through my dealer in China (Shanghai)? As i said previously, I have limited space for two keyboards on my desk.

Thanks,

Joe
« Last Edit: December 07, 2012, 10:30:37 am by jooechip »

rcmusic

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Re: midi local on/off mode, aftertouch, usb
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2012, 06:12:28 pm »
English is not my primary language (what? you did noticed it?? ;D): but from my understanding "ALTERNATIVELY" does not mean "IN THE MEANTIME", so i would not qualify it as misrepresentation. maybe i'm wrong...

This being said, i will be more than happy to get the local on/off, too... ;) whenever it comes
« Last Edit: December 07, 2012, 06:15:32 pm by rcmusic »

jooechip

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Re: midi local on/off mode, aftertouch, usb
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2012, 02:13:28 am »
Hi Bruno,

Just a pic to show my space issue, and the fact that I do actually have a Minibrute.

Joe

Bruno@arturia

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Re: midi local on/off mode, aftertouch, usb
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2012, 10:41:24 am »
Hi Joe,
I can not speak on behalf of your dealer, ask him, it will be much more reliable answer.
btw i can't get the picture of the desk?
Bruno
Arturia Hardware

jooechip

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Re: midi local on/off mode, aftertouch, usb
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2012, 11:35:51 am »
Hi Joe,
I can not speak on behalf of your dealer, ask him, it will be much more reliable answer.
btw i can't get the picture of the desk?

Hi Bruno,

Re: the refund from the dealer, I'm afraid your are passing-the-buck with your answer. It not the dealer's fault that Arturia are misrepresenting the master-keyboard abilities of the Minibrute. There is nothing actually faulty. I would imagine the dealer is quite within his/her rights to refuse a refund on those grounds. As a representative of Arturia I want a clear answer from you. You have already admitted that the Arturia 'details' page is wrong and that you will inform marketing (I'm guessing they will have to change it).

I bought the Minibrute with the purpose of replacing my Novation LE controller (see attached pic) which at the present moment due to not having a midi local on/off mode I am unable to do.

Re: the pics, the message above states that the 'attachments are awaiting approval' (I'm guessing you/site admin approves this?)

I would really like to keep the Minbrute, but I can't wait 6 months for a firmware update. Either get the firmware out quicker, or give me official confirmation that the inability to use the Minibrute as a DAW controller is grounds for a full refund.

Thanks,

Joe
« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 11:40:14 am by jooechip »

Bruno@arturia

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Re: midi local on/off mode, aftertouch, usb
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2012, 11:34:49 am »
Hi Joe,
Quote
As a representative of Arturia I want a clear answer from you. You have already admitted that the Arturia 'details' page is wrong and that you will inform marketing (I'm guessing they will have to change it).
I'm not a sales guy, my job is to design product, and I do spend some of my time trying to make this forum a good source of information and support for MiniBrute owners.
Quote
Either get the firmware out quicker, or give me official confirmation that the inability to use the Minibrute as a DAW controller is grounds for a full refund.
I can't answer on this too, MiniBrute is able to be used as a DAW controller(it does sent midi notes, velocity, aftertouch, pitch and modwheel), except that the local on/off option does not exist yet.
I won't do any semantical analysis of the sentences used on the web site, as i'm not a native English speaker, nor a marketing guy, but for sure it's written nowhere that local ON/OFF is available.
For this kind of request, please contact our sales department using the following link. please explain them you concern, they will give you feedback.
http://www.arturia.com/evolution/en/company/contact2.html

Regards
Bruno
Bruno
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Seb

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Re: midi local on/off mode, aftertouch, usb
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2012, 01:45:50 pm »
I agree with Bruno on this one, it definetely has DAW controller features.

I mean, would you expect to get a refund because you realised that the knobs do not send midi CCs? This is pretty much the same thing for you : you are expecting a refund for a feature that has never been explicitly announced.

Quote
Without midi local on/off, it is currently impossible to use the Minibrute as a master keyboard for any DAW (unless of course you turn down the main volume of the Minibrute).

In a way, you say something is impossible, then prove that it is possible in the same sentence, don't you?

I can give you another way to use the Minibrute as a master keyboard without local on/off : Instead of turning down the main volume, unplug the cable that goes from your Brute to your Soundcard/mixer/whatever, and plug it straight into your ass. Now the minibrute is a perfect master keyboard, just as you wanted it.

jooechip

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Re: midi local on/off mode, aftertouch, usb
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2012, 01:48:56 pm »
You are right, I will report that to the marketing.

Thanks

Hi Bruno,

Sorry, but not much 'semantic analysis' is needed for your previous reply above and while I do appreciate English is not your native language, I'm afraid the main Arturia website and Minibrute details are all in 'English'.

RE:using the MiniBrute as a DAW controller. Yes you are correct. It is possible to use it as a DAW controller, but only  if when playing you turn down the volume of the Minibute. Which be honest, is a little pointless no? And no, it doesn't have to written anywhere that midi local on/off is provided. Anyone with any experience of midi/synths knows this is essential if using a sound generating synth as a controller. It's synth 'design' 101, so please don't berate me for my 'semantical analysis' when you are doing exactly the same.

As for you fobbing me off, telling me to contact sales. Why don't you do it? You seem to be forgetting that I just spent about $550 on a synth that doesn't do one of things I bought it for. Pardon me If you think I'm giving YOU are hard time.

Also did you see the pics I attached? You would understand my space issue and why not being able to use it with my DAW is such a problem.

Thanks,

Joe










« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 01:54:07 pm by jooechip »

 

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