So you cant play real brass and youre a samplerhead, i was right. You have no modeler chops, also right.
The funny thig is that Yamaha had the same problem with you guys when the introduced the VL1, it had a keyboard and immediately keyboardists said the EXACT same thing "it sounds like a kazoo"
in reality it was just them being stupid, so in a smart move yamaha REMOVED the keyboard and since then the vl70m has been one of their most succesful synths.
but rather than even make a beginners effort at comprehension you resort to infantile insults in order to defend your fantasy that theres no instrument you cant master in an hour.
you said "but do you really mean that Arturias products are only for you guys? It sounds like it and you say so but I wonder if Arturia really want it to be that way? Are you sure and have checked with their sale team first? "
which really proves you to be a moron, which youd know if you read anything i linked to.
yamaha used Cal tech/ Stanford to do physics modeling for the vl series including VL70m
arturia used IRCAM to likewise do physics modeling for brass
they are both exactly the same type of acoustic physics modelers
they are the only 2 available.
arturia includes demos played by a windsynth
arturia clearly states its a model, every moron knows an accurate trumpet model wont be played on the first day by a noob
and only a complete and utter noob could think garritan and brass are competing products
SAMPLERS AND MODELERS ARE NOT FOR THE SAME PURPOSES.
your problem is you want brass to be another sample bank and god thats boring, we already have like a dozen or so of those, but not only that you want physics modeling BANNED because YOU CANT PLAY IT.
im quite certain if anyone from arturia is reading this that theyd agree im the only one who "gets it", and i bet they appreciate it because ANY COMPANY CAN TOSS TOGETHER A SAMPLE BANK YOU CAN PLAY FROM YOUR MIDI KEYBOARD WITH A LITTLE VIBRATO ON THE MOD WHEEL AND FILTER ON THE FILTER WHEEL BUT IT TAKES HUGE INSTITUTIONS YEARS OF WORK TO CREATE REALISTICALLY PLAYABLE MODELS.
and realistically playable doesnt mean a guitar player will learn it in an hour. thats what SAMPLERS ARE FOR and only MORONS would get them MIXED UP.
before responding with more gradeschoolisms i recommend you read this:http://www.patchmanmusic.com/WindControllerFAQ.html
and especially this which is contained:
So what's so special about the Yamaha VL70-m?
What's the difference between samplers and physical modeling type synthesis?
Samples can easily always sound better than a synthesized sound in a single dimension. But sounds have another dimension for most of us wind controller players- that is, they need to respond and be played and adapt to the musical demand. Samples are merely a snippet of a real recording so I would expect them to sound as good as any CD recording of that instrument playing. Essentially, that's all samples are anyway. The problem is when you try to manipulate the sample and play it expressively or differently than how it was originally recorded. You run into insurmountable problems once you try to do expressive things that are not already recorded into the samples. A sampler's filters and layers only go so far. I've tried to find ways around it with just about every sampler made. But when you start to get down to trying expressive things that really matter with samples you end up hitting the wall of limitations- at least given our current technology.
For example, let's say you want to crescendo a simple flute sound from ppp to fff. Ok, you need some samples of a flute at several different levels. A soft flute sounds far different than a loud flute that is blown hard. So you sample them. You create 50 layers of flute samples. You can even crossfade them so that different samples come in and out as you blow. But along that slope you either have to hard switch between the samples or crossfade between them. If you hard switch between them, that sounds completely unnatural as you hear the switch. If you crossfade them you will have to be hearing more than one sample in some proportion at the boundaries and that sounds unnatural. You would need to match the pitch exactly so you don't get chorusing- but samplers aren't generally phase locked so you will get some weird out of phase composite sound or actual cancellation of sound. Real flutes don't do that either so that sounds unnatural. On the VL since it is a true synthesizer with no samples, with the proper patch, you simply blow harder and the overtones are created and added as on a real flute.
Then we have the issue of slurring with samples which no sampler can really do right. That's a mess with samplers. At some point you need to switch samples within the slur. Currently samplers cannot do a realtime crossfade between adjacent samples. So you either overlap them slightly which is unnatural, or you hard switch between them which is unnatural, or you change the sample playback rate which is too smooth and causes a "chipmunk" effect which is unnatural. If you can't play a simple slurred melody on a sampler, I'd say that's a pretty big problem with samplers. On a VL, you can slur easily and the timbre changes properly and smoothly. The VL even reacts to how you are playing. It reacts to the previous notes that were played and how you tongue, and the slope of your breath etc... People need to realize this. The physically modeled synth is a dynamically responsive instrument like a real acoustic instrument.
There are other significant problems with samplers. After thinking about it for years, I decided that the only way to even POSSIBLY do it right with today's mainstream technology is with physical modeling. So I decided to commit nearly a year of my life to trying to make the VL's physical modeling sounds as close to real as possible. I realize that the VL Voices are not 100% perfect copies of real instruments, but I think they are far better, more realistic, and more natural to play than any sampler could be capable of. Personally, I'd go as far as to say that the timbre on the many of the TURBO VL sounds is also as good as a sampler and approaches the sound of the real thing.
You could offer me the biggest Gigasampler setup with every Gigasampler CD ROM ever created and I'd still choose my TURBO VL70-m for playing with my wind controller. Once you play a VL and get used to it, playing samples will feel very unsatisfying no matter how good the samples are. Once you are used to the responsive interaction you get from the VL, you will easily sense the "lack of control" feeling you get when playing samples. Playing samples feels like you are triggering a sound. Playing a physically modeled sound feels like you are interacting directly with the sound. The Yamaha VL line of synthesizers employs Physical Modeling to create their sound. This type of synthesis is vastly different from anything else. Physical modeling synthesizers can actually respond to HOW you are playing just like an acoustic instrument. You can play middle C three different ways and it will sound three different ways depending on if you are coming from an adjacent note or a note a large interval away, or if you slurred into it or tongued into it or if you were bending into it, etc...
I'm amazed to discover new characteristics of these instruments every time I play them. Try playing a VL tenor sax very softly and listen how the sound almost magically goes from breath noise to a defined pitch, or play very staccato and listen how the horn resonates, or play very fast and listen to how the instrument might squeak or skips octaves. You really need to play an instrument for a decent amount of time to understand all of its complexity. It's an amazing feeling the first time you play a VL tenor sax and skip down an octave- the sound doesn't just jump the octave but it instead resonates to the lower harmonic. Or a VL Tin Whistle can actually jump an octave as you blow harder just like on the real thing.
Another example: It is possible to do true lip shakes on VL brass patches. Not only that but the VL knows to shake a major second from high "Bb" to high "C" but it knows to shake a minor third from high "G" to high "Bb". It can follow the true harmonic series of a real trumpet. Along these lines. I've experimented with actually controlling the embouchure with the bite pressure on my EVI to simulate the way a bugle or trumpet player can skip harmonics with the lips. It works, but it's hard to control it this way. All that's needed is for someone to build a trumpet controller with an embouchure sensor and we've got a "virtual trumpet". On trumpet patches it is even possible to split notes between the mode breaks!
and heres some more on acoustic physical modeling:http://enlightenedsystems.com/vl/vl.htm
patchman make soundbanks for modelers AND ALSO SAMPLERS for brass and wind players.
nobody understands them more, not even you, and they clearly understand the differences and benefits of each.
i mean before you further ignorantly criticize arturia be aware that they are THE ONLY PLUGIN COMPANY brave enough to be making a acoustics physical modeling plugin.
There are DOZENS of companies doing ROMPLERS, ISNT THAT ENOUGH??